From Food Truck to Target: The Honest Truth About Clean Food in the Mainstream with Greg Lok, Butcher's Bone Broth

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#35 From Food Truck to Target: The Honest Truth About Clean Food in the Mainstream with Greg Lok, Butcher's Bone Broth

What does it actually take to get a clean, mission-driven food brand from a single food truck to the shelves of Target, Whole Foods and Costco, without compromising on ingredients, without private equity and without paying to play?

This week we sat down with Greg Lok, COO of Butcher's Bone Broth, the #1 fresh refrigerated bone broth in the US, for one of our most honest and eye-opening conversations yet. Greg shares what the scaling journey really looks like, the business realities most brands don't talk about openly and why staying true to your mission gets harder and more important at the same time.

We're diving into:

• what fresh bone broth actually is and why the jiggle matters

• how Butcher's went from a single rotisserie chicken food truck to Target shelves without private equity or VC money

• the reality of slotting fees and what they mean for small clean brands

• why fresh is always better than frozen or shelf stable and what to look for on the label

• greenwashing in food and why slapping "protein" on everything is a problem

• what the wellness movement back to natural really means for the food industry

• Greg's rapid fire- tart cherry juice, local honey, sauces and the one wellness trend he thinks is wildly overhyped

Chapters

[00:00] Intro + what is Butcher's Bone Broth
[04:33] Getting into Target, Costco and Whole Foods
[07:11] How they make their own bone broth with no middleman
[13:29] Asian food culture, the jiggle and going back to basics
[19:23] The fork in the road- choosing to be the best at one thing
[22:30] Cash flowed from a food truck, no PE, no VC
[25:38] The slotting fees and retailer manipulation
[35:06] Fresh vs frozen vs shelf stable, what's actually best
[37:15] Greenwashing in food and what to look for
[43:42] Wild customer stories- cancer, cats and hair growth
[47:30] Rapid fire round
[51:00] Wellness trends here to stay + most overhyped
[53:30] What keeps Greg grounded

Read Transcript ↓

Transcript

greg (00:00) it's just easy to understand. There's typically three ingredients, like in chicken, it's organic chicken, organic carrots and water. MARGUERITE + KARL (00:00) just easy to understand. There's typically three ingredients like in chicken, it's organic chicken, organic carrots and greg (00:06) I am amazed every single day. We are we are cash flowed 24 years ago from one single food truck that sold rotisserie chicken and potatoes. if you had to make a choice, fresh is always the best. MARGUERITE + KARL (00:14) it's like if you had I ⁓ fresh yeah, slotting fees are real and something that we aren't gonna participate in. we think those dollars are probably meant better to to funnel back to the end product so it's true quality, if not for more awareness than it brings greg (00:17) slotting fees are real. It's something that we aren't gonna participate in. we think those dollars are probably meant better to to funnel back to the end product is ensure quality, if not for more awareness to for end consumers. I swear it's because of your bone broth. Or you know, like my hair's gotten thicker, but I have hair on my arms a lot more. Like, trust me, like it's because of your MARGUERITE + KARL (00:30) swear it's because you're bone crop. Like my hair's gotten thicker but I have hair on my arms a lot more and like trust me like greg (00:38) it's not just what you achieve but how you go about it. And that matters to me. MARGUERITE + KARL (00:38) it's not just what you achieve but how you go about it. And that thank you for coming on the show. Yep, so for anyone who hasn't heard the first episode that we had with Butcher's Bone Broth, can you give us like a 60 second version of what Butchers is? Yeah, Butchers is greg (00:43) Hm. Yep. Glad to be here. Yeah, butchers is the number one bone broth in the fresh refrigerated space. So that basically means like most of the bone broth that everybody knows of is in the center of the aisle, the shelf stable ambient. we do things a lot differently, partly because of what Thomas, our founder, did who's a third generation Swiss butcher. we made a fresh bone broth that's really jiggly. So when you pour it out, it it literally rolls out like jello, right? And that's all the great gelatin and collagen there. So we think we're MARGUERITE + KARL (01:03) we do things a lot because of it we made a fresh bone broth that's really jiggly. So when you pour it out it it literally rolls out like jello, right? And that's all the great gel tin and called tin there. So we think we're recreating a new category called fresh bone broth because if you go into many stores across America, it's hard to even know where we sit. Sometimes we're in the refrigerated heat set, sometimes we're in what's called in the fresh convenient set at Whole Foods. And then High V I I'm pretty excited. We're gonna be in the greg (01:18) recreating a new category called fresh bone broth because if you go into many stores across America, it's hard to even know where we sit. Sometimes we're in a, meat set. Sometimes we're in what's called in the fresh and convenience set at Whole Foods. And then Hive, I'm pretty excited. We're gonna be in the probiotics gut and health and wellness set, which is the first time that we'll be sitting in that. MARGUERITE + KARL (01:36) probiotics gut and health and wellness act, which is the first time that we'll be sitting in that's amazing. That makes perfect sense too. It really does. Yeah. It's greg (01:42) Yeah. It it does. It's kind of MARGUERITE + KARL (01:45) of it's fascinating to me because you know when Tom started the business and and certainly with our bone broth, I think the initial thesis was, you know, like at the time nine years ago, people are gonna use bone broth majority for cooking. But what we found is there's a dramatic increase in people utilizing bone broth as a sipping greg (01:45) it's fascinating to me because you know, when Tom started the business and and certainly with our bone broth, I think the initial thesis was, you know, like at the time nine years ago, people are gonna use bone broth majority for cooking. But what we found is there's a dramatic increase in people utilizing bone broth as a sipping ⁓ regimen of some MARGUERITE + KARL (02:06) Regional greg (02:07) So yeah, that's what we're getting. ⁓ uh-huh. MARGUERITE + KARL (02:07) So me. Yeah, she's pointing it. morning or do you do it in the evening? I do it in the morning. I do ever since I came across Butchers Bone Brothers too, I always use Butchers. I love it. And so I love seeing it getting into all these stores because it's just more convenient. I love the turmeric ginger one. greg (02:10) Do you do it in the morning or do you do it in the evening? ⁓ huh. Yeah, it's it's amazing, right? it's also our our favorite here at our household. If you put it you can sip it or if you want, you can just cook it with rice as well. That's like a subtle flavor, that's pretty cool. but yeah, we gotten a lot of compliments to it. MARGUERITE + KARL (02:30) You can sip it or if you want you can just cook it. Yeah. We have a lot of confidence, but I I think we've got maybe four bottles in our refrigerator right now. Yeah. So we keep it stocked. The kids love it too. Yeah. I know it was funny because we were, you know, we try and get like when possible, we try and get everything from a farm, but bone broth is really hard and you have to make it. It takes forever. And so when we had talked I was like, little does Thomas know he just like totally reeled us and is like a very loyal customer because when I tried it and it was like the jiggle. greg (02:41) good. Uh-huh. MARGUERITE + KARL (03:02) The jiggle. And was like, yeah, this is solid because no other bone broth is like that. The any of the shelf stable ones, they're not jiggly. And whenever I have made bone broth, which is like twice, I have to make sure I have like the jiggles. So I love seeing, yeah. Yeah, and the the jiggle rater on the website, You had the the amount of jiggle, I think, for each kind. I love that. It's Like I don't know, I think about CPG. greg (03:14) Exactly. Yeah. Is that vision okay? Uh-huh. It's it's amazing, right? Just like I don't know. I think about CPG products and you know, I I came from tech and tech in some ways, depending on what side B2B or the B2C side, it could be complex or not. I think food, you know, it's simple to understand, but in many ways, the science behind it, it's kind of Like Thomas always says, we want to understand our broth better than it knows us. And it's so true because there's a science behind MARGUERITE + KARL (03:41) Thomas always says, know, we want to understand our broth better than it knows us. And it's so true because there's a science behind how do you make a great product without putting tons of stuff in it? And part of that means being really wise of different components of products of of even the raw materials in, but then how do you even process it in a way that provides like a great and jello product, right? That people greg (03:49) How do you make a great product without putting tons of stuff in it? And and part of that means being really wise of different components of products of of even ⁓ raw materials in, but then how do you even process it in a way that provides like a great and jello product, right? That people understand. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:07) Right, right. especially in the refrigerated section, I love that you guys don't have all these preservatives because that's when it can get, tricky because you don't want to have all that added stuff. So it's really cool that you guys just have really clean ingredients. Yeah. My role is get my kid button. greg (04:19) Yeah. My my rule of thumb is if my kid well, I can't say my kids 'cause only one my kids can read, but if my can read it in the back and just have like look at her fingers and these are ingredients, I mean, typically that's a really good thing. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:33) Yeah, yeah. That's a great rule. I love that. That is a really good rule. We gotta keep that in mind because we're teaching our five-year-old about ingredients. And so that's something good to keep in mind Yeah. Well, hey, I'm gonna back up a little bit if that's okay. So recently you got into Target. Congratulations. I think it was like 175 stores, I think is what I read. Maybe it's grown since then, but ⁓ super cool. And so greg (04:35) Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Yeah, ⁓ basically all the super centers right now. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:55) Personally, like what goes through your mind when you actually go in and you see the product on the shelf for the first time in like such a major retailer like that? greg (05:02) You know, I think there's like big points of validation that kind of go to mind, right? I think like, hey, who doesn't know Target, right? I I would say we we're very fortunate in that we've had a series of big wins for the whole team. You know, Costco was probably one of our earliest, which is weird because when you think about CPG brands, you know, you you typically like to think they grow regionally and whatnot before going to club. but Costco's been a a pretty big part of our program, Whole Foods as well. MARGUERITE + KARL (05:06) like eight. collected to think they grow originally and whatnot before going to club. the Costco's been a a pretty big part of our program, Whole as well. greg (05:27) So getting a target means something really huge for us because that's kind of like mass retail and and we think the shopper demographic fits really well with our demographic. you know, somebody who's trendy, millennial, you know, might have some disposable income that is looking for healthy products and yeah, with target's revamp of their stores to kind of bring MARGUERITE + KARL (05:27) So getting a Target means really huge for us because that's kind of like mass retail we think the Shepper demographic fits really well with our Yeah. You know, someone who's trendy, millennial, you know, might have some disposable income that is looking for healthy products and yeah, with the target's revamp of their stores to greg (05:46) a lot more innovative products through their sets, I I'm pretty excited about how we're doing. MARGUERITE + KARL (05:46) Bringing a lot more innovative products through our sets. about how we're doing. Yeah. Absolutely. I am very excited. A lot of times I do Target pickup and I went in Target a couple weeks once in a while. If I, you know, ha need a little break or something, I'll go and just stroll around Target. And I was shocked at all the clean brands that they're bringing in. I was very pleasantly surprised. Yeah. These are our movements heading in the right direction. Yes. greg (05:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's ⁓ it is. It's I you know, I I I find that the movement is happening and it's just happening at a pace where a lot of us want to move quicker. I'll be honest with you. Like if you look at I'm not sure how old you guys are, but I'm soon to be in my mid forties, which basically means that I was born in my eighties ish. MARGUERITE + KARL (06:21) Yeah. seemed to be in my mid forties, which basically means that I was more in the eighties ish. But I grew up greg (06:29) But I I grew up on like cool things with like TV dinners, right? Or Pop Tarts, like things that were like, it's cool, it's kind of whatever. But if you unpeel layers, it's like, holy crap, that's like really pretty much unhealthy for you. And then, I think the last, you know, dozen years or so, Thomas and I always talk about it's like, hey, you know, MARGUERITE + KARL (06:32) Yeah, yeah. Like a reservoir like, it's cool, it's kind of whatever, but it's Gushers. crap, that's like really pretty much like healthy for you. Yeah. Hey, greg (06:45) plant base and and cultivated meat, you know, it's it's it's innovative, but I would say, you know, I think consumers kind of looked and examined it even closer and just really questioned like what does it mean for their bodies outside of the environment. MARGUERITE + KARL (06:46) know, plant based and and cultivated meat, you know, it's it's it's innovative, would say, you know, I think consumers kind of looked and examined closer and just really questioned like what does it mean for their bodies outside environment? greg (06:58) And the the cool thing that we see that, I think y what you and your podcast and listeners are interested in is like, you know, how can we get back to healthy by going back to natural? Like things that aren't complex. And when you look and study, like MARGUERITE + KARL (06:58) And the the cool thing that we see you know, I think with you and your podcasting listeners are interested in is like, you know, how can you get back to healthy by going back to natural? Right. when you look at study like greg (07:11) we c I'm not sure if Thomas mentioned it, I'm pretty sure he did. But we make our own bone broth, right? It's like there's no co man, there's no middleman. We we know our suppliers, we go to their farms, like we're we're pretty vertically ⁓ tied up. MARGUERITE + KARL (07:11) But we could I'm not sure if Thomas mentioned that I'm pretty sure he did. But we make our own Bolvar, right? It's like there's no co-man, there's no middleman. We we know our suppliers, we go to the farms, like we're we're pretty vertically ⁓ greg (07:23) That allows us just to be a little more thoughtful of like like this is how Thomas's mom made it and Thomas's grandma made it. And how do we do that at scale, but still do it in small batch manufacturing where it's really like you come in, you're like, Hey, that's how I'd make it at home. MARGUERITE + KARL (07:24) that allows us just to be a little more thoughtful of like like this is how Thomas's mom made it and Thomas's grandma made it. But and how do we do that at scale but still do it in small batch manufacturing like really like you come in, you're like, hey, that's how I make it out. Right. Yeah. That's actually one of the things that we wanted to ask you too is how do you navigate that without compromising on the ingredients or your sourcing or anything, just going from such a intimate, small brand that's so special with like you said, like his mom and his grandma made that to being able to scale on such a large level like you guys are now. Yeah, I think it's like you're a lot. greg (08:02) Yeah, I think it's if you ever walk to our factory, it's not like like you'll never see these huge tanks that are like the size of reservoirs, right? Like you can imagine other bone broth brands they were they fill it with water and they get a chicken wing and they wait it in there and that's that's bone broth, right? Ours isn't. You go into ours, it's the size of a I I say a tank, but it's I don't know, it's like a billboard size here, a whiteboard, or a couple, you know, maybe a little bigger and whatnot. MARGUERITE + KARL (08:07) Like you'll never see these huge tanks. You can imagine other bulb rock grants say that where they fill it with water and they get a chicken wing and they wait in there and that's that bulk rock, right? Yeah. Ours isn't. If you go in know, it's the size of the ⁓ I say a tank, but it's I don't know, it's like a billboard size here, a whiteboard, or a couple, you know, maybe a little bigger and whatnot. greg (08:30) But we do it for several of them and we make sure we have the right ingredients and the right what we call SOPs, which is standard operating procedures. It's just basically like MARGUERITE + KARL (08:30) but we do it for several of them and we make sure we have the right ingredients and the right what we call SOPs, which is standard operating procedures. It's just basically like greg (08:41) it's basically how I'd say like what grandma's recipe was, you know, fifty, sixty years, we we don't deviate from that, right? Just so that we're maintaining the the good quality that we would expect, the at least our consumers would MARGUERITE + KARL (08:42) It's basically I would like what grandma's you know, fifty, sixty years, w we so that we're maintaining the the good quality that we would expect. at least expect. greg (08:54) expect. MARGUERITE + KARL (08:55) Right, right. Yeah, I I love that. And a next question I guess would be when you go to Costco, Target, Whole Foods, do you get asked to change your ingredients or your packaging or your labeling or anything like that? greg (09:07) Yeah, all retailers do things differently. I think Whole Foods is probably the more progressive one in in the industry the where they would seek to have ⁓ you know, certain labels and certifications. You know, I think it it's great in some ways that it, you know, leads the charge. I think it presents potential challenges for brands out there, especially merging ones, right? Where you're managing different cost structures of having additional compliance and MARGUERITE + KARL (09:26) especially version ones, right? Where you're managing different greg (09:33) It's interesting, right? When you when look at what we do, which is bone broth that's fresh, if they pr if they look at us as another bone broth brand, they they they might not require something, but since we are fresh, it maybe they look at us a little differently. So, you know, it's all different from different retailers. MARGUERITE + KARL (09:34) Interesting, right? When you when you look at what we do, which is bone broth that's fresh, if they if they look at us as another bone broth brand, they they they might not require something, but since we are fresh, it maybe they look at us a little differently. So, you know, it's all different from different greg (09:52) I think one thing that plays in our favor is that it's just easy to understand. There's typically three ingredients, like in chicken, it's organic chicken, organic carrots and water. MARGUERITE + KARL (09:52) I think one thing that plays in our favor is that it's just easy to understand. There's typically three ingredients like in chicken, it's organic chicken, organic carrots and water. greg (10:03) source MARGUERITE + KARL (10:03) sourced from, you know, organic farms and just to keep it super simple. So that's helped us greg (10:03) from you know organic farms and just to keep it super simple. So that's helped us a lot. MARGUERITE + KARL (10:10) that's great. Yeah. Were there any anything that surprised you in the whole process? greg (10:15) which part? MARGUERITE + KARL (10:16) in just and working with Target I guess I could back up too and ask, you know, how long is that process when you first started communicating with them to getting it actually on the shelves there? And then anything as part of that process that surprised you, like whether it's good or bad from Target side? Or any of the major retailers really, greg (10:32) So you know, I always have to set remind myself and and ground myself because when you come from the tech side, ⁓ let's say you do e commerce or an app, you can make some line changes, code changes and you could basically have a new product on your website really or or app fairly quickly. I think one thing you realize with a physical product is that, you know, it takes time and MARGUERITE + KARL (10:41) Lady. Basically. Mm-hmm. physical product is that you know it takes time and ⁓ takes time. greg (10:56) Takes time for it to kind of mature and to get customer response. We've been at Whole Foods probably for five, six years. We w we're in this awkward space called fresh and convenience, which if you shop there, it's kind of like there's some hummus there, is there's some fresh noodles. It's basically like things they couldn't figure out. And they're like, We're just gonna put you in this set. exactly. So like it's hard for consumers to find out, but if you look at just velocities, MARGUERITE + KARL (11:00) We've been at Whole Foods probably for five, six years. We w we're in this awkward space called Fresh Inconvenience, which if you shop there, it's kinda like there's some hummus there, it's just some fresh needles. It's basically things they couldn't figure out and they were like, We're just gonna push you this side. Yeah. sauerkraut in ours. Yeah. It's hard for consumers to find out, but if you look at just greg (11:23) You know, I think I'm a big believer that people when they find out eventually, MARGUERITE + KARL (11:23) I think I'm a big believer that people when they find out greg (11:27) you could help them find it out, ⁓ we just look at how we're doing and it and you know, I would say it it's been pretty size-making astronomical over the last ⁓ year, year and a half. And it and part of me thinks, and this is a question, right? I think this is part of the movement that you guys are doing. Is it is it partly because there's a larger movement out there that it's more moving toward MARGUERITE + KARL (11:27) if you could help them find it out, we just look at how we're doing and it and you know, I would say it it's been pretty sizing astronomical over the last ⁓ year, year and a half. And it and part of me thinks and this is a question, right? I think this is part of the movement that you guys are doing. Is it is it partly because there's a larger movement out there that it's more moving toward clean eating and realizing that's a direct impact to health? greg (11:50) Clean eating and realizing that's a direct impact to health, longevity, MARGUERITE + KARL (11:53) Sogitivity ⁓ and quality. Andor is that a combination of us doing a lot more awareness campaigns? And also because of that, is it because like people who shop at Whole Foods are now just discovering us, and therefore they're just increasing, increase, increase in velocity. And that's what we're finding out, honestly. That on our side, I think we we're getting people who greg (11:54) ⁓ and and quality. and or is that a combination of us doing a lot more awareness campaigns? And also because of that, is it because like people who shop at Whole Foods are now just discovering us and therefore they're just increasing, increasing, increasing velocity. And that's what we're finding out, honestly, that on our side. I think we're we're getting people who purchase us regularly, especially zippers. Sippers are interesting when you look at a category. They prefer MARGUERITE + KARL (12:17) purchase us regularly, especially sippers. Sippers are interesting if you look at the category. greg (12:22) for us, they they purchase maybe, you know, 30% more likely per week than somebody who uses a as a standard cooking ingredient. they use more year round as their health regimen. And certainly when you think about Whole Foods, that's the behavior that those consumers drive versus maybe a a conventional store at, I don't know, Safeware where people are using it more for cooking MARGUERITE + KARL (12:22) For us they they purchase maybe, you know, thirty percent more lightly per week than somebody uses a as a standard cooking ingredient. ⁓ they use more year round as their health regimen. And certainly when you think about Whole Foods, that's the behavior that those ⁓ consumers drive versus maybe ⁓ a conventional store and I don't know, safe where where people are using it more for laps. Right. That makes sense. Yeah, totally. I know it's like I can't run out. 'cause you know, I I'll buy like three bottles at once. It you start to view it as like a vitamin you take every day. Yeah. Well it kind of is for your gut health. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's all that coll I think people realize like greg (12:59) it's it's all that call and I think people realize like I I won't overkill you with collagen. Thomas always probably told you like talked your ear off on on and collagen and and over the time of like people's lives they have more than they have less. But you know, it's something that I I grew up with. Like if you look at Asian cultures, soup is a big part of it, right? And I would always have soup at every meal and any leftovers if you MARGUERITE + KARL (13:07) And call it the more than they have less. But you know, it's something that I I grew up with. Like if you like Asian soup is a big part of it, right? And I would always have soup at every meal and any leftovers, if you put in the refrigerator, it just jiggles the next day, right? That's when you know your mom put enough bones in there. Yeah. Yeah. You greg (13:23) put it in refrigerator, it just jiggles the next day, right? That's when you know your mom put enough bones in there to make it. So, you know, MARGUERITE + KARL (13:29) there was a there's this trend that happened on TikTok. I if you've seen it about about three months ago or six months ago. And then we fit it greg (13:29) was a there's this trend that happened on TikTok. I'm not sure if you've seen it about three months ago, ⁓ or six months ago. And then we fit we fit in that trend because we got called out for it. It's kind of like this Asian baddie grandma where you have all these habits that they do and whatever, but it's really it contributed to their lifespan. MARGUERITE + KARL (13:38) We fit in that trend because we got called out for it. It's kind of like this Asian baddie grammar. All these habits that they do and whatever, but that's really it contributed Yeah. you know bone broth visible is greg (13:50) And ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (13:50) of them. And yeah, check us out on TikTok or Fincy Grammar, we've gotten a decent following over the last couple of months. I love that. And in even in another way that fits in too is like w how you mentioned earlier cooking rice with bone broth. greg (13:51) You Boombroth was was one of them. And ⁓ yeah, check us out on TikTok or Instagram. Maybe we we've gotten a decent following over the last couple of months. Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (14:06) too. So that's a great way even into the Asian culture. That's what I do too with my children, just 'cause they won't drink bone broth really. So I sneak it in, I'll cook their rice or their pasta with it. Or hot chocolate. I love hot chocolate too. greg (14:13) Yep, yep. It means something different. That's something I'm I'm realizing. It means something different for different demographics, right? For your kids, like it's it's kind of like you're the caregiver who realizes, you know, it's the protein, it's all the good stuff that they need stuff for them to grow. There you you sneak it into ingredients. For a mom, it's like, shoot, this is great for my gut, it's great for my skin. I gotta make part of my everyday regimen. And then the ones that I get through email every single week, there there's some folks who have MARGUERITE + KARL (14:25) For your kids, like it's it's kind of like you're the caregiver who realizes you know, this is the protein, it's all the good stuff that they need to grow, there you you sneak it into ingredients. For a mom, it's like shoot, great for my you guys, it's great for my skin. I gotta take part of my everyday regiment. And then the ones that I get through email every single week, there's there's some folks greg (14:46) the one that I I always call out was like you have this email from a MARGUERITE + KARL (14:46) the one that I I always call out was like if you got this email from a greg (14:50) a daughter who's taking care of their like six sixty or seventy year old father who's six foot three, now weighed 130 pounds because he had cancer, had to amputate a arm. And the only thing that he could take was really our bone broth. And he drank like three bottles of our beef bone broth every day because it that's the only thing that gave him the sustenance to survive. And and in those stories, it's like, my god, it just means something MARGUERITE + KARL (14:51) a daughter who's taking care of her like six sixty or seventy year old father who's six foot three, now weigh a hundred and thirty pounds 'cause he had cancer, had to amputate a arm. And the only thing that he could take was really our bone broth. And he drank like three bottles or beef bone broth every day because that's the only thing that gave him the sustenance to survive. Yeah. And in those stories it's like, my God, it just means something so powerful for different levels of the society. Absolutely. Just touching lives in a positive way. That's amazing. greg (15:14) So powerful for different levels of the society. Yeah, definitely. MARGUERITE + KARL (15:21) Yeah. I absolutely love that. We we really enjoyed talking to Thomas and getting into a lot of those details when we last spoke with him. And you know, I love the way you brought up the the baddie grandmas, right? And we say this on just about every episode. Like if if we have consistent listeners, I'm sure they're like, Carl's gonna say it again. But we're always aiming to like go back 60 years, right? Like it's innovative in today's system, but it's like let's just go back and simplify things and that's what's actually best for us. That's what we love about what you guys are doing and some of the other brands that we speak to. You know, everybody's aligned in that mission. Mm-hmm. greg (15:54) Yeah. And I think like it's I don't know. I think there's just so much opportunity there. ⁓ and and not I mean, I think there's opportunity there for consumers, just it just makes their lives healthier. but MARGUERITE + KARL (15:59) Yeah. And and that's I mean I think there's opportunity there for consumers just it greg (16:05) you know, I I think there's another side, which is I think there's very entrepreneurial people who are looking to join companies that are kind of mission driven. And you know, when Tom and I met and you know, we met at a time where MARGUERITE + KARL (16:17) Yeah, we never greg (16:18) I was working for Cliff Bar at the time. I, you know, we got acquired by Mondolys. I was trying to figure out what to do next. You know, I stumbled upon the opportunity with Thomas. And and you know, he he's been working at Rolly Roads he started it as a food truck for 24 years. And, you know, then about nine years ago he started Butcher's Bone Broth. But, you know, it it takes a little village in many ways to get the thing going, right? So, you know, I I think there's tremendous opportunities for just ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (16:21) you know, we got a part of the monoliths, let's try to figure out what to do next. You know, I stumbled upon the opportunities on this and and you know he he's been working at Roy Rooks, he started as a fleet truck for twenty four years. And you know, then about nine years ago he started push his bum bruh, but you know, it takes a little diligence in ways to get the thing going. So you know, I I think there's tremendous opportunities for just ⁓ greg (16:45) People like, hey, if if there's listeners out there, they're kind of questioning, you know, where do I spend my time in MARGUERITE + KARL (16:45) people like, hey, if there's listeners up there that are kind of questioning, you know, where do I spend my time greg (16:50) in terms of like a career? And are there opportunities outside of big companies? I'm like, yeah, search for these great small brands, these mom and pops that are doing some really healthy, great things, doing the old style in many ways. And then how do you market it effectively? How do you produce it at scale so it impacts people at a larger scale? But at the same time provides you a way to make an impact that you're proud of and and MARGUERITE + KARL (16:51) in in terms of like a career and are there opportunities outside of big companies on like, yeah, search for these great small brands, these momma pops that are doing some really healthy, great things, doing the old style in many ways. And then how do you market it effectively? How do you produce it at scale so it impacts people at a larger scale, but at the same time provides you a way that make it impact of your product and and you know, I I think it goes both sides it's it's it helps every consumer but also this would be a great vehicle to help the greg (17:13) You know, I I think it goes both to what I said, it's it's it helps the everyday consumer, but also this could be a great vehicle to help the the next level of people who are looking to kind of create, I don't know, jobs for themselves. MARGUERITE + KARL (17:20) the next of people are looking to kind of create, I don't know, jobs for themselves. absolutely. And that also it just is a ripple effect on everything too. Like with people doing something that they believe in and that kind of feels a little bit more personal with health does kind of for most people, you know, anything in the health umbrella. So it's just like if that could be an option to make someone be doing something that they love and then bring happiness and greg (17:27) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (17:46) different ways. So I love that too. If if that makes sense. Yeah. I thought about ⁓ yeah greg (17:48) Totally. I think that's I thought about ⁓ you know, I I joined Cliff Bar about two years before the acquisition. And it was amazing because, you know, as much external marketing the company had around like, you know, the Cliff Bar itself, the the great thing is that attracted ⁓ people who cared about operating in a certain way. You you attracted people who cared about sustainability, who were fairly outdoorsy or athletic, right? So you're MARGUERITE + KARL (17:58) Amazing because yeah, as much external marketing the company had around like The the great thing is that attracted ⁓ people who cared about operating a certain way. You you attracted people who cared about sustainability, ⁓ who were fairly outdoorsy or athletic, right? So you're you know, in many ways it's like you're doing external marketing, but it really it it it translates to internal marketing in terms of who you attract around the table to kind of feel good about the mission you're working on and then the end product to the people who you know consume it. So yeah, I I'm hoping that we can achieve something similar at at Butcher's. greg (18:18) you know, in many ways it's like you're doing external marketing, but it really it it it translates to internal marketing in terms of who you attract around the table to kind of feel good about the mission you're working on and then the end product to the people who, you know, consume it. So yeah, I'm hoping that we can achieve something similar at at Butchers ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (18:35) ⁓ yeah, over the greg (18:35) over you know over the next couple of years. MARGUERITE + KARL (18:37) next couple of years. Yeah. Absolutely. I think he will. I think it's I you you probably run across this, but you probably have to make a lot of decisions that are good for the mission, but maybe harder for the business, right? As you try to scale and grow. By having the right people in the room, with the right the you know, the right alignment there and be supportive of that. greg (18:50) Totally. I mean it was it was MARGUERITE + KARL (18:56) it's it's it's greg (18:56) it's it's it's critical. I I think there has been many forks and roads. There's been pretty big forks and roads the last couple of years, right? I think, you know, if you look at us as a business at Butchers, Rolly Roti is the parent company. Thomas started it with his wife, Yumi, as a food truck. Then we started doing a lot more command products, whether it be sous vide or or broth. But you know, we there was a fork and road about a year and a half two years ago where we said, Hey MARGUERITE + KARL (19:04) Think you know if you look at UME as a food truck. Then we started doing a lot more command products, ⁓ whether it be Suvi. We there was a fork in the road about a year and a half two years ago where we said, Hey, greg (19:23) You know, like do we want to be a little of everything for everybody? Or do we want to be intentional about our future and and and where we want to be the best at? So you know, we we kickstart ourselves down this path of of saying, hey, we wanna be the very best. We want to be the very best bone broth company out there for fresh that, when you open your bottle, you want consistency to see that jiggle, right? And ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (19:23) you know, like do we want to be a little of everything for everybody? Or do we want to be intentional about our future and and and where we want to be the best at? So we you know, we we kickstarted ourselves down this path of of saying, Hey, we wanna be the very best. We want to be the very bone broth company out there for fresh know, when you open your bottle, you want consistency to see that in J Work, right? And greg (19:46) that's what we're kind of that's kind of our North Star. I think everything else kind of supports that. MARGUERITE + KARL (19:47) That's what kind of that's kind of our north star. I think everything else kind of supports So I do have a question. I'm kind of thinking about how people, especially more now, like to know exactly where their food's coming from and kind of the process. What exactly is the process when you're getting into these big box stores? what is the greg (20:00) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (20:07) process that happens, like did they reach out to you? Do you reach out to them or like apply? I'm sure there's such a long list of people trying to get on shelves. how does that all look? Yeah, I think it's it's ⁓ it's traditionally bi directional. I I think greg (20:18) Yeah, I mean I guess it's a it's traditionally bi directional. I I think probably one more direction is if you're a s if you're a hungry emerging brand, yeah, you go out there and you try to open some doors, right? I think what's helped us tremendously the past year and a half or so is just there's a larger awareness of bone broth as a category, which is helpful, but just ⁓ the more bigger attraction of understanding that fresh is best. MARGUERITE + KARL (20:28) Yeah, you know. tremendously the past year and a half or so is just there's a larger awareness of bone broth as a category, which is helpful, but just the the more bigger attraction of understanding that fresh is best greg (20:47) And we're seeing those inner sessions happening in a big way. So, you know, it when you talk to Sam or head of sales, it it's never hard to kind of open a door just to have a conversation. I think what we're finding is now we're having a lot of inbound, which is kind of interesting. it like MARGUERITE + KARL (20:48) and we're seeing those intercessions happening in a big way. So you know, it when you talk to Sam our head of sales, it it's never hard to kind of open the door just to have the conversation. I think what we're finding is now we're having a lot of inbound, which is kind of interesting. ⁓ like greg (21:02) I think about two weeks ago, I got this email come in from, you know, a fairly large, you know, 150, 200 store buyer MARGUERITE + KARL (21:02) I think about two weeks ago, I got this email come in from, you know, a fairly large, you know, under fifty, two buyer greg (21:11) for the meat set and they're like, yeah, tell me more about it. Like, do you distribute through this or or do you can you go direct? It just really fa fantastic to see a lot of inbound come in, ⁓ more so over the last couple years. Which is kind of when you think about a brand's, you know, it's a question, right? It's like, I think if you're a stall s MARGUERITE + KARL (21:12) for the reset. And like, yeah, tell me more about it. Like do you distribute your this or could you underwrite? It just really fast to see a lot of inbound come in over the last couple of years. Totally. So of when you think about brands, you know, it's a question, right? It's like I think if you're a greg (21:28) small startup, which we try to think of of ourselves just 'cause how entrepreneurial we are, you know, you're always gonna go out there and and hunt, right? You're just gonna try to open as many doors as possible. You know, at the same time you also have to balance kind of MARGUERITE + KARL (21:28) small startup which we try to think of of ourselves just as how entrepreneur we are. You know, you're always gonna go out there and and hunt, or you're just gonna try to open as many doors as possible. You know, at the same time you also have to balance greg (21:40) Can you create tailwinds for the rest of your team so that when they are presented the opportunity, you know, the buyers actually know you already 'cause of great marketing? Like people are aware of your brand, they're aware of the stories, they're aware of the the goodness of your product that it's in these other places that are just doing so well. MARGUERITE + KARL (21:40) can you create tailwinds for the rest of your team so that when they are presented the opportunity, you know, the buyers actually know you already because of great marketing. Like people are aware of your brand, they're aware of the stories, they're aware of the of the goodness of your product that it's in these other places that are just doing so well. Right. That's that's awesome. I wanted to ask too, like, especially for our crowd, it's kind of aligned to what we're just speaking about, but when we see these small brands that we love and trust kind of go mainstream, it can be almost an immediate loss of trust sometimes, just based off what we've seen with companies being bought out, of course, like we just kind of talked about. But you know, how do you guys address that internally and and sort of Safeguard yourselves from losing trust in customers when you do expand into these major retailers. And maybe it's a little easier now because the consumers are driving these brands into the bigger retail shops. But I'm just curious if you had any thoughts on that and how you guys handle that within the walls of Butcher's Bone Broth. greg (22:30) Mm-hmm. Hey, the great thing about us, you know, like we are not private equity backed, we are not VC backed. ⁓ I am amazed every single day. We are we are cash flowed 24 years ago from one single food truck that sold rotisserie chicken and potatoes. And and that's allowed us to just do things our own way, honestly. Like if you if you think about it, who would start a company making a bone broth the way that we do? MARGUERITE + KARL (22:41) Yeah. I love that story. And that's allowed us to just do things greg (23:01) There's just nobody. If you look at the quality of ingredients and the mad ingredients we put into the product, it's like, holy crap. Like, no. If I was a business person, I would just put a couple chicken wings, tons of water, and just boil it like crap and and then put in aseptic ⁓ cartons and whatnot. Like we do things the hard way, which I don't I think it has to do with our DNA. Like Tons didn't like wasting bones, right? It's just like shoot. MARGUERITE + KARL (23:06) It's like, holy crap. Like no. If I was a business person, I would just put a couple of chicken wings, tons of water, and just boil it like crap and and then then aseptic parking whatever. Like we do things the hard way. Right. I think it has to do with our DNA. Like it's honestly not like wasting bones, right? It's just like shoot, like if if you're if we're using it for our our a do do food service and we end up with tens of thousands of bones, like why throw it away? And like could I even repurpose this to do something better? And history has shown, like, civilizations and cultures have, so why couldn't we do the same? But which amazed me when I go in the factory, YouTube should come greg (23:28) Like if you're if we're using it for our our do food service and we end it with tens of thousands of of bones, like why throw it away? And like could I even repurpose this to do something better? And history has showed like civilizations and cultures have, so why couldn't we do the same? But what's amazed me when I go into the factory and you two should come sometime as MARGUERITE + KARL (23:48) as well. ⁓ I'd love to come see it. Me too, awesome. greg (23:48) ⁓ you just look at the amount if you look at the amount of product we put into, you know, our tanks and whatnot and the quality of it, it would just amaze you compared to like, you know, you go to Swanson's, you go to Campbell's, you go to, you know, these other ones where it pours like water. There's a reason why things pour out like water, right? It's either it's because they're, you know, probably high heat treated, there's probably not a lot of MARGUERITE + KARL (23:58) It would just amaze you compared to like you know when you go to Swanson's, you go to Campbell's, you go to, you know, these other ones where it pours like water, there's a reason why things pour out like water, right? It's because they're, you know, probably high heat treated, there's probably not a lot of things outside of water that are being drinked with it, therefore it doesn't gel like gels in even if you put it in the fridge, it won't gel like gel. Right, right. So, you know, it's just good marketing, I guess, a lot of them. greg (24:17) things outside of water that are being cooked with it. Therefore it doesn't gel like gelatin. Even if you put it in the fridge, it won't gel like gelatin. ⁓ so you know, it's just good marketing, I guess a lot of them have. MARGUERITE + KARL (24:28) Yeah, yeah. D diluted. That's even even outside of food. I've noticed that happens a lot in skincare too, where like water is the first ingredient. And I'm like, no. All right. have you ever had like a really surprising moment when you have been greg (24:34) yeah. Yep, yep. MARGUERITE + KARL (24:42) working with these stores? Like was was there anything that you were not greg (24:45) You know, this is a tough business for brands, especially emerging ones. Like, you know, everybody talks about how tough it is for I mean like Pepsi, Cook, all these other ones. Like I was reading in in the paper maybe a year ago, like inflation and and because of it, these brands, these big brands like Pepsi Cola had to raise their prices a little, and then they they the retailers started pulling them off the stores and whatnot. And you know, the you know, you kind of MARGUERITE + KARL (24:46) You know, this is a tough business for brands, especially immersion ones. Like, you know, everybody It is for I mean like Pepsi, Coke, all these other ones. Like I was reading in in the paper on maybe a year ago, like inflation, and because of it, these brands, brands like Pepsi Cola have to raise their prices and then they pulling them off the stores and whatnot. And yeah, you kind of you feel that but you really don't for a Coke greg (25:12) You feel bad but you really don't for a coke and MARGUERITE + KARL (25:14) whatnot. Yeah, definitely not. For many reasons. We'll be honest about it here. greg (25:14) I would say, you know, a lot of those things happen to smaller brands, which people don't hear or or can't appreciate because they don't get to see the light of day of it. you know, y we like to think that brands have strong retail partners and those are meaningful partnerships. MARGUERITE + KARL (25:24) Yeah. greg (25:38) You know, in business, like it's it's business is business in many ways. Like you might have some small and pop retailers, like we have some like Berkeley Bowl that that we started with, that where the relationship is is really tight, right? And there's others where we're just a number, right? ⁓ that that and the only reason why we're there is like holy crap, your retail velocity is high, you're you're gaining market share and you in can you're you're bringing people to our stores, which is great. But you know, there's there's things that the MARGUERITE + KARL (25:51) There's others where we're just a number. Yeah. Right? If that that and the only reason why we're there is like, holy crap, your retail velocity is high, you're you're gaining credits here and you can you're you're bringing people to our stores, which is great. Yeah. But you know, there's there's things that I'm trying to figure out how to words means this one head. Just hard to be honest with your listeners. You know, like emerging brands go through shitty stuff because a lot of buyers, they're just people working at whatever greg (26:07) I'm trying to figure out the how to wordsmith this in my head, just whatever. But if I were just to be honest with your listeners, you know, like emergent brands go through shady stuff because a lot of buyers, they're just people working at whatever at that store as a buyer's and they get judged by margins and whatnot, and they want to compress those as much as possible. They'll compress it if it was Coke and they'll compress it just like a smaller company. And if there's other ways they can find a grind you down so that they can save extra buck, even though it might not get back to the end consumer. MARGUERITE + KARL (26:20) store as a buyer's and they get judged by margins and whatnot, right? And if there's other ways they could find a grind you so that they can save extra buck, even though it might not get back to the end consumer, greg (26:36) They'll do it. Like there's there's ridiculous stuff, right? And maybe I'm opening up a can of worms and maybe you'll you know, and this is maybe the good stuff for for publicity, right? Like there's like MARGUERITE + KARL (26:37) they'll do it. Yeah. Like there's there's ridiculous stuff, right? And maybe I'm poking up a can of worms and maybe you'll I know and this is maybe good stuff for public situations. I love where this is going, right? 'Cause that's what our listener base is interested in. greg (26:49) there's like there's really BS stuff out there, right? Like certain retailers have certain programs that are ridiculous. there's these everyday low pricing models where they say, Hey, you know, we'll we'll keep your price every day low, but you have to give us a certain price for that, like a like a a fee. And that's kind of ridiculous. Like, why do we have to give you margin protection for that to happen in the first place? There's other brands out there at retailers that say, Hey, you know, your stuff is doing really, really well. can we take it off the shelf and put it underneath our brand name? Or like WTF? Like what what makes you think that you have the right to understand our formula and treat it the right way and leverage our like IP? Like MARGUERITE + KARL (27:08) Right. There's other brands out like retailers who say, Hey, your stuff is ⁓ can we take it off the shelf and put it underneath our brand name? Like WTOF, like what what makes you think is that you have the right to understand our formula and treat it the right way and leverage our like IP. Like greg (27:27) Like why? Why would we want to do that? And why why do we think that you, the steward of that recipe, could do it the same way? And you would probably just want to cut the cost and put just one chicken wing in it, right? Like, so this is like the stuff that you like probably isn't told, all right, like MARGUERITE + KARL (27:27) like why? Why would we wanna do that? And why why do we think that you, the steward of that recipe, can do it the same way? You would probably just wanna cut the cost and put just one chicken wing in it. Right. Yes. Like this is like the stuff that you like probably isn't told, all right? greg (27:43) to many folks. I mean, there's all other BS stuff as well. There's you know, there's like there's a whole supply chain, right? MARGUERITE + KARL (27:43) Like to many folks, I mean there's all other BS stuff as well. There's you know, there's there's the whole supply chain, right? greg (27:50) There there's some big beasts out there that handle direct like if you're not doing direct to consumer, there's only two national ones that handle it, Kahe and Unify, right? I I don't I think if you talk to many immersion brands out there, they aren't the greatest partners out there. Whether that's deductions that hit you left and right. I mean, big companies like Coke, MARGUERITE + KARL (27:50) There's some big beefs out there that handle direct and like if you're not doing direct to consumer, there's only two national ones that handle KDE and Unify, right? I I don't I think when you talk to many immersion brands out there, they have the greatest partners out there. Whether that's deductions that hit you left or right. I mean big companies like Coke Nestle, they have teams that can fight deductions, right? You're talking about a small mom and pop shop that is trying to be efficient to provide the best value to the consumer. greg (28:09) Nestle, they have teams that could fight deductions, right? You're talking about a small mom and pop shop that is trying to be efficient to provide the best value to the end consumer. you know, it takes a lot of work to kind of like fight these and and be smart with them. MARGUERITE + KARL (28:19) you know, it takes a lot of work to kind of like fight these and be smart with that. greg (28:23) sorry, I'm I'm guessing I'm complaining quite a bit, ⁓ but I just wanna be honest to your ⁓ listeners that it's not easy to do what we do and we take it for granted. It's even harder to be in a place like California where we are MARGUERITE + KARL (28:23) sorry, I'm I'm gonna say I'm complaining quite a bit, but to be honest to your ⁓ listeners that it's not easy to do what we do and we take for granted. It's even harder to be in a place like California where we are. greg (28:38) we we are manufacturing California, which actually MARGUERITE + KARL (28:38) w we are manufacturing California, which greg (28:42) If people look into it, it's really hard to be a manufacturer in California for whatever reasons. All right. Whether it's the cost of living, whether it's like there's a reason why there are a plethora of billboard lawyers that you probably won't see in the middle of the country or even, you know, different parts of the country, but you see tons of them over here for whatever claims, whatever. So ⁓ yeah, to end. It's not easy, but we figure out to make it work, ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (28:42) if people look into it, it's really hard to be a manufacturer in California for whatever reasons. All right. Yeah. Whether it's the cost of living, whether it's like there's a reason why there are a plethora of billboard lawyers that you probably won't see in the middle of the country or even, you know, in different parts of the country. Yeah. You see tons of them over here for whatever claims, whatever. So ⁓ yep that it's not easy. But we figure out to make it work. greg (29:07) partly because like MARGUERITE + KARL (29:08) because like Thomas is like Thomas and we're just so passionate about what we do. Yeah. You also notice ⁓ Margaret like when or when go to Whole Foods or whenever you buy us, there's there's only three SKUs, right? Yeah we have when you study other brands like Hell and Fire there's like I think thirty six, forty SKUs. you know I think there's something to be said of less is one. Yeah. Because once you have like we talked about earlier we want to be the best at certain things. It's hard to be the best greg (29:09) I don't know, Thomas just is like Thomas and Seamber just so passionate about what we do. Like you also notice, ⁓ Marguerite, like when or when you go to Whole Foods or whenever you buy us, there's there's only three SKUs, right? That we have. when you study other brands like Kell and Fire, there's like I think you know 36, 40 SKUs. know, I think there's something to be said of less is more because once you have like we talked about it earlier, we want to be the best at certain things. It's hard to be the best at MARGUERITE + KARL (29:37) at forty, I I'm I can be the best at like two, three things. ⁓ we have confidence we can deal with end greg (29:38) forty, fifty things. But if I know I I'm I can be the best at like two, three things, I we have confidence we can deliver that to the end consumer in a way that's kind of consistent and something that they would love. MARGUERITE + KARL (29:48) in a way that's consistent and something to think about. Yeah. I I agree. And that's so funny you say that. I mean obviously different, but like I feel like that's a lesson that I'm learning right now is you can't it's you can't be a jack of all trades. You just have to focus on couple things so you can do really, really well at those things rather than ⁓ at everything else. At everything. greg (29:54) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (30:04) So greg (30:04) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (30:05) Yeah. Yeah. So how many how many people are actually working at Butcher's Bone Broth? I don't know if you I don't think you mentioned that. greg (30:10) Yeah, so ⁓ you know, we're we're plus or minus somewhere in the hundred range and and you know, the bulk majority are gonna be more on the production side, just given that we own our vertically integrated manufacturing. But I would say the last eighteen months or so we've added quite a bit on the on the office side just so that we're effectively balancing growth on the, you know, awareness, customer facing roles, ⁓ and other shared services roles as well. MARGUERITE + KARL (30:15) Okay. the on the office. You know, awareness, customer facing goals, ⁓ and other shared services as well. Yeah. Yeah. I do have a question too, kinda back to what we were just talking about for a second on being on the shelves. I'm pretty sure I saw this from Shark Tank or something, but you guys reta or any brands, you have to pay like a fee to be especially in the refrigerated section, right? Yeah. greg (30:55) Yeah, I mean that's the that's the crazy stuff, right? That's ⁓ you know, again, these slotting fees are are are killers for certain brands. we've recently made the decision that i if it's gonna require slotting, we're no longer gonna participate. U you know, we we've drew drew a line to say and says, Hey, you know, like th those dollar I mean, like why would s why I guess again, why are retailers asking for slotting dollars? Why are they asking for everyday low price guarantees? MARGUERITE + KARL (31:02) We recently made Yeah. And you know, we we drew drew a line to say and so I say, you know, like those dollar I mean, like why would I guess are why are retailers asking for slide dollars? Why are they asking for everyday low price guarantees? greg (31:22) I mean, it's basically trying to figure out ways to pocket more money for themselves in some ways. And that's not good necessarily for brands like us to sustain and and keep a price that's like reasonable. I would hate for our prices to jack up enough like twenty, fifty MARGUERITE + KARL (31:22) Right. It's basically trying to figure out ways to pocket more money for themselves in some And that's not good in necessary for brands like us to sustain and and keep a price that's like reasonable. I would hate for our prices to jack up enough, like twenty greg (31:36) percent, whatever. Like we've only made one price increase in ten years, right? And that's after I joined and try to convince Thomas that we can no longer take these compressed margins when people are asking for slotting, asking for XYZ. ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (31:36) fifty percent whatever. Like we've only made one price increase in ten years, right? And that's after I joined and try to convince Thomas that we can no longer take these compressed margins when people are asking for slotting, asking for XYZ. Right. ⁓ but yeah, slotting fees are real and something that we aren't gonna participate in. we think those dollars are probably meant better to to funnel back to the end product so it's true quality, if not for more awareness than it brings consumers. greg (31:49) But yeah, slotting fees are real. It's something that we aren't gonna participate in. we think those dollars are probably meant better to to funnel back to the end product is ensure quality, if not for more awareness to for end consumers. MARGUERITE + KARL (32:03) I love that. I'm so happy that you are putting a boundary there because more brands that do that, that's gonna make a difference. Cause everybody has everybody's trying to be successful at what they're doing. I grew up in a family of manufacturing, totally different, totally different industry, but I kind of understand a lot of that too. how those relationships can go and what the retailers are gonna do. It's it's some of it's just kind of crazy. greg (32:27) Yeah. I'll I'll illuminate this with a story, ⁓ brief one. We had one retailer take pocket slotting feeds in the past only to remove us after six months to get slotting dollars from somebody else and then offered them to bring us back. And we're like, Holy crap. So we're if you look at all the other regions of your banner, we're performing at the same level, if not better. And the only reason you're doing this is basically to pocket two slotting dollars in a year for the same slot. MARGUERITE + KARL (32:40) Yeah. Same level, if not better. And the only reason you're doing this is basically to pocket two slotting for the same slot and then bring like, my god, this is kind of the dirty business that goes on behind the scenes. Yeah, that's that's shitty. Shoppers would be happy with that either. No, that's why I'm glad I'm not either. Like, that's why I'm glad that you're actually setting that boundary, not just like eating it, because greg (32:57) And then bring us back in. And I was like, my God, this is kind of the dirty business that goes on behind the scenes. And yeah, I don't I don't think shoppers would be happy with that either, that behavior. MARGUERITE + KARL (33:14) there's like a ton of stores here, big stores that are the opportunities to be in. retailers are also very lucky to have you because consumers do want three ingredient products and healthy, organic and quality products. So if they're not gonna work with the brands right, the consumers aren't gonna go there eventually if they know. So greg (33:29) Mm-hmm. It totally. Yeah, I I I agree wholeheartedly, partly because I don't know, I I I go back the like the daughters the dollars they asked to get slotted in just is so ridiculous that they have to realize, and I think some of them are, where if your brand becomes something so symbolic of the identity of somebody that they want to be, and then have that tangentially relate to them going into the doors of a certain retailer. MARGUERITE + KARL (33:51) If you're maybe if somebody that they want to be and then have that tangentially relate to the greg (34:03) that that's that's worth something in a big way, right? So yeah, I I would say like it's partly educating buyers that they can't just treat every brand the same way. When the movement is toward fresh and natural, you need to really lean in and say, no, you are offering something that's differentiated that my buyers really want and care about. And yeah, I might need slotting for like a new bag of of quote unquote better for you chips or whatever. But you're doing like MARGUERITE + KARL (34:04) That's worth something in a big way, right? So yeah, I I would say like it's partly educating buyers that they can't just treat every brand the same way when the movement is toward fresh and natural, yeah. You need to really lean in and say, No, you are offering something that's differentiated that my buyers really like and care about. And yeah, I might mean slotting for like a new bag of of quote quote better for you chips or whatever. Yeah. But you're doing like fresh bone broth. greg (34:32) fresh bone broth the traditional MARGUERITE + KARL (34:33) The traditional way. This is what greg (34:33) way, and this is what people really, really want. Like, yeah, w we don't have to go through this kind of ⁓ song and dance about slotting fees. MARGUERITE + KARL (34:41) really, really want. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to go through this kind of song and dance about slogging things. Right. Right. and I do have a question too. you guys are the only fresh bone broth that I've seen. and I know the self-stable bone broth, I've literally opened up those boxes and had spoiled bone broth. One of my friends always Tells me she's like, yeah, that happened to her. She opened up a very popular brand of bone broth and it was bad and she didn't realize it. And her child was drinking it. And now he will not touch bone broth because of that experience. And but I was curious, isn't there something that also is with the freezer? greg (35:06) yeah, yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (35:12) Bone broth, doesn't it degrade the nutrients or something like that? I could be wrong, but I thought I read something like that. greg (35:18) It I mean so I'm not the scientists, but from what I understand from our R and D folks, and and Thomas as well, 'cause he's you know, he has some good experience, you know, the the the molecular strands of of of collagen just aren't as tight because when you freeze they pull out together. So when you get it later on, it just doesn't jiggle, right? So if I were to prioritize for consumer what that means, it's like if you had to make a choice, fresh is always the best. MARGUERITE + KARL (35:19) It I mean I so I'm not the scientist, but the the Because when you breathe get it later on, it just doesn't shield. Right. So if I already for consumer what that means, it's like if you had I ⁓ fresh is always the best. Frozen I guess is alright. if it was fresh before and then shelf still would probably be the last choice that I would do it's ⁓ greg (35:45) Frozen, I guess, is alright. ⁓ before, and then shelf stable would probably be the last choice I would do, partly because actually I I don't even sh I don't even want to shit on other bone broth companies. It's like any company any any brands that do more shelf stable stuff, like just look at the ingredient list. If you can't pronounce it, if they're putting something that's like questionable. MARGUERITE + KARL (35:53) Actually I I don't even sh I don't even want to shit on other bone It's like any company any any brands that do more shelf stable stuff, like just look at ingredientless. We can't pronounce it. If they're putting something that's like questionable, ⁓ yeast this or gum that, just question like, is that good for me organically, right? And again, I go back to my daughter and she'd be like like she asked me something the other day, it's like, does that include chemicals? And if and if so, then I don't want greg (36:05) ⁓ yeast this or gum that like like is that good for me organically right and like back to my daughter like she asked me something today it's like does that include chemicals and and if so then I don't want it. I'm MARGUERITE + KARL (36:17) it. greg (36:17) good I'm glad you they teach you that at school. MARGUERITE + KARL (36:18) Great question. Yes. Good for her. I love that too. our son is starting to talk crap about Chick-fil-A. He he attacked Chick-fil-A McDonald's yesterday. It hilarious. We should get the two of them on a show together and have them talk about ingredients. greg (36:30) Well. Hey, that would be amazing. I I I I it'd be fascinating for your demographics. Imagine two kids talking and and educating each other in in that population. That'd be great. MARGUERITE + KARL (36:41) That would that would be amazing. That would be a really good. But that that also so that's like when you think about those other brands maybe that are putting those different products in there, kind of goes along what you say a lot is greenwashing, right? Yep. So there's like a pretty fine line between good marketing and actual quality and you know, being seriously organic and having good ingredients and everything like that. So what are your thoughts on that that line between good marketing and using statements maybe that are You know, they they're not approved, but they don't need to be approved and you can kind of say what you want. Unregulated, that's the word I'm looking for. You know, to to appear that way when you have a better product like yours on the shelf that is truly organic and non toxic. greg (37:15) Yeah, ⁓ I just feel so bad for consumers just in general part because they make it makes it so hard to find out what's real or not. Right. Just because of the degree there's so much marketing that goes to defend something that's bad that and just to build it up is to say, hey, we're not bad. And and if you just use common sense, it's like, no, that that wouldn't be good. That's why to us it's kind of the reason why we've taken so long to kind of hit kind of critical mass, like it's it's product market fit. And I think when you look at the business starting MARGUERITE + KARL (37:28) Yeah. Yes. Right to us is kind of the reason why we've taken so long to kind of hit kind of critical mass, like it's it's product market fit. And I think when you look at the business starting greg (37:50) Well, not the business, the the broth starting about s a year ten like a decade ago. MARGUERITE + KARL (37:51) well not the business, the the broth starting costs that you tend to like a decade greg (37:55) Marketing dollars was not top of his mind like any other big company out there. So, you know, like MARGUERITE + KARL (37:55) Marketing dollars is not top of your mind like any other big company out there. So Him where that if you build it they will come mindset. I I like that better. Yeah. I do too. greg (38:03) Exactly. So he built it. He built it and then people started wanting it more and more. Like it was basically just like he brought in these he he canned it himself or he he he filled it up himself. I remember who you saw me. He brought it to Berkeleyville and and ⁓ gave it a chance and then all of a sudden he got a call back after a couple of days from the buyer say, can you give me more of that? I was like, What what do mean? It's like, Yeah, it's sold out already. And he was like, okay. So he basically started building a following just organically without any marketing and MARGUERITE + KARL (38:11) He's he can't I was what what do you mean? It's like, yeah, it's sold out already. Like, okay. So he basically started building a following just organically without any marketing. And that's the beauty thing, because once you're out once you understand the jiggle of that quality, that collagen and and everything good inside of it, you're gonna come back because you know this better. the best thing that we are amazed in part of that was on I think it was on I think it was either on TikTok or Instagram where somebody greg (38:32) That's the beauty of it, because once you're hooked, once you understand the jiggle, that quality, that collagen, and and everything good inside of it, you're gonna come back because you know this better. best thing that we are amazed and proud about was ⁓ think it was on I think it was either on TikTok or Instagram where somebody somebody mentioned kind of like our broth or just broth in general. And then some users said, ⁓ look at this jiggles. And then MARGUERITE + KARL (38:50) Somebody mentioned kind of like our broth or just broth in general. And then some users say, look at this jiggles. And then these other folks are like, ⁓ like ew, the jiggles. And then all of a sudden you had these like random people who actually had a broth. They're like, no, you're mistaken. I like the jiggle is all the good stuff. Yeah. And they're like, my God, so I've been having like kettlefire or or bro or these other ones for so long and and I feel cheaty because it's like it's just like water. greg (38:59) These other folks are like, ⁓ like you, jiggles. And then all of a sudden you had these like random people who actually had our broth. They're like, no, you're mistaken. I like the jiggle is all the good stuff. And they're like, my God. So I've been having like kettle and fire or or Broto or these other ones for so long. And and I feel cheated because it's like, it's just like water. Right. MARGUERITE + KARL (39:20) Yeah. Right. So you know, part of it is just let the product speak for itself. Like if you had to do a blind taste test, I actually I would I would be curious greg (39:20) So you know, part of it is just let the product speak for itself. Like if you had to do a blind taste test, I actually know I would I would be curious of that. MARGUERITE + KARL (39:28) about if can if you're a shopper in a category, simply just just like buy a couple of them, put it in whatever, taste it, do a self taste test for with your family. Yeah. And then you can read behind with the label and whatnot. But yeah, I feel I because I deal with this not just like for bone broth, right? I think I think even for greg (39:28) If can if you're a shopper in category, simply just just like buy a couple of them, put it in whatever, taste it, do a self-taste test for with your family and see what comes out of it, right? And then then you can read behind what's the label and whatnot. But yeah, I feel I cause I deal with this not just like for Bombrath, right? I I'm think I think even for my kids, MARGUERITE + KARL (39:49) kids, like shoot, like there's there's stuff in there. Like I want them to be healthy and have good habits, but they if I can teach them how to think it greg (39:50) like shoot, like there's there's stuff in there. Like I want them to be healthy and have good habits, but if they if I can teach them how to think about it MARGUERITE + KARL (39:58) first, that's why I go back to my she's like eight years old. She can read. Like that's a good thing, right? Like we leverage that as a tool where she can actually learn about what she's putting in her greg (39:58) first. That's why go back to Maya. She's like eight years old. She can read. I'm like, that's a good thing, right? Leverage that as a tool where she can actually learn about what she's putting in her body. MARGUERITE + KARL (40:08) Mm-hmm. And it's just a it's just another way to kind of set your kids up and then also another generation to kind of go back to what Carl always says is back to basics. Like Go back to real food and real nutrition and instead of, all this crazy stuff that has ended up on our shelves that are just chemicals. Yeah, the the things that we've accepted as a people is tough and it's tough to overcome. And that's why we are here trying to create awareness, And spotlight good brands like yourselves and others so that we can go out and support. Because like we were talking about Thomas, you know, starting, you know, if you build it, they will come. Most companies or a lot of companies can't survive that period, right? Until they be that awareness is created. So now we've got all these platforms and different avenues to go ahead and get it out there and people are paying more attention. And personally, I'm absolutely loving it. Yeah. you know, going back to a simplified food has cured some of my illnesses. And so I'm a big, big fan, you know, proponent. And I'll get out there and tell anyone that wants to hear, these are the types of foods you need to be eating if you want to be healthy. And 90% of the stuff that you think is greg (40:45) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (41:10) Food, you need to get rid of it. Yeah. It's true. So he actually went on the carnivore diet and totally cleaned off his gut, he took the gut health testing and the doctor was like, What? I have like never seen anyone's gut so clean before. And it was nine months of carnivore. That's just a testament though to being able to see less than a handful of ingredients, right? And being able to understand what they are and know that it's just coming naturally is it's so good for your body. greg (41:12) Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. MARGUERITE + KARL (41:37) one thing too I love about bone broth, I mean, even take away the nutrient density of it. I I think warming foods are better for us. Well, especially for women. I don't really know so much about for men, but for women, like warming foods are better for our bodies, especially when it's, that time of month or like if you're sick or something. So even that alone I think is just like really cozy. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. greg (41:52) Mm-hmm. Yep. Totally. Yeah. It it's it's it's interesting as well typically one of the questions we get from buyers and you know retailers, like the education is like, Hey, you know, like are you a seasonal product? Is it only to winters? And and certainly if you look at bone broth as a category, you know, it's it's cyclical. I would say, you know, the data that I s have an opportunity to see compared to other brands is MARGUERITE + KARL (42:10) Yeah. ⁓ You know the data. greg (42:25) You know, if you go to the center of store and and buy traditional, like I don't know, ambient shelf stable bone broth, I I would bet most of them their demand cycle is is also like very peaks and valleys where you get trad like just when it's cold, people drink it. It Ours is interesting. ⁓ that's happened recently where we're seeing you know, we'll we'll still get those peaks and valleys for sure, but the the the peaks of our valleys are pretty MARGUERITE + KARL (42:25) Yeah, you should have and by traditional, like, I don't know, ambient shell stable bull. I I would bet most of them their demand cycle is is also like your peaks and valleys where you get trad when it's cold to the train it. Yeah. ours is interesting. I that's happened recently where we're seeing you know we'll we'll still get those peaks and valleys for sure, but the the the peaks of our valleys are pretty greg (42:54) are h pretty healthy. And I think that speaks to more of that everyday consumer who just realizes that, it's not about drinking in December. It's really about drinking it every morning or later in the evening. It's like every but every day. So that's been really helpful for us as we kind of start educating people, not just about bone broth, but you know, fresh bone broth and and what we can offer that's a little different. MARGUERITE + KARL (42:55) are pretty healthy. And I think that speaks to more of that everyday consumer who just realizes that, know, I I it's not about drinking it in December. It's really about drinking it every morning or later in the evening. It's like every but every day. Yeah. So that's been really helpful for us as we kind of start educating people, not just about bone broth, but you fresh bone broth and and what we can offer that's a little Yeah. Well, it's also it can replace a coffee. Coffee a lot of times isn't even just needed for caffeine. A lot of people just drink it because they want that warm morning drink. And also, you know, in the summertime, my argument for that would be is you are typically not getting as much sleep. You're kind of out and about, maybe drinking more or eating crappier. So bone broth kind of replenishes you and brings you back down and centers you a little bit. greg (43:20) Mm-hmm. Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (43:42) Yeah. There's your commercial. Great PR right here. But that's actually a question I want to ask is like what kind of feedback do you get from customers? is it mostly that it's taste good or do you get a lot of feedback that it's makes me feel healthier, more invigorated, and maybe even helps me, you know, cure any ailments it might have. Yeah. greg (43:42) So that's interesting. So a couple. So there is ⁓ I'll give you a wide variety just because I get the chance to see all the emails come in. but I'll give you a couple stories. There ⁓ so Thomas and I were having ⁓ breakfast with ⁓ actually another CEO of a a pretty large like a ⁓ three, five billion dollar like conglomerate of some sorts and and he sings praises about our broth that uses us in a different way. He he doesn't drink it and replaces coffee, he does it with coffee. So he puts like MARGUERITE + KARL (44:18) Mm-hmm. He doesn't drink it and replace his coffee. greg (44:28) half a mile and we're like, why why do you do this? And he's like, well, cause it it satiates me. Like I drink coffee to wake me up, but at the same time, like I don't want to have to nibble and eat like breakfast and all the stuff. I'm having like intermittent fasting. So this really ties me over for up to lunch. That's one use case of that that we've heard a couple of MARGUERITE + KARL (44:30) do this? And he's like, Well, 'cause it it satiates me. Like I drink coffee to wake but at the like I don't want to have to nibble and eat like breakfast and all this stuff. And I've like intermittent fasting, so this really ties me over for that's a lunch. That's one use case of that that a couple times. greg (44:46) ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (44:46) That's a great idea. That that fits my lifestyle really well. I don't usually like to eat in the morning but I love having my coffee. A lot of it's just for that that warm drink feel. Yeah, and that probably would stabilize hormones too, because you know, you never want to drink coffee on an empty stomach. Exactly. Yeah. greg (45:00) Exactly. And it has the protein with it as well. So it's like it's a it's a good win or interesting hack. And I was like, I get it. I mean this the CO wakes up at like 3 30 in the morning, I think. So, you know, ⁓ needs the coffee and broth. you know, we've heard some other ones that were just insane. I wouldn't say insane. There's there's other where this might get too I don't know, I'm just gonna say MARGUERITE + KARL (45:04) Yeah. I this the CNO wakes up at like three thirty in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've heard some other ones that were just insane. ⁓ there's there's other where this might get to I don't know, I'm just gonna say Go greg (45:21) this woman started using our bone broth and he's like, my god. MARGUERITE + KARL (45:21) it. This woman started using our greg (45:25) Like I see hair growing on my body that I never had before. I swear it's because of your bone broth. Or you know, like my hair's gotten thicker, but I have hair on my arms a lot more. Like, trust me, like it's because of your product. so that was another one. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then, you know, people always say the energy levels, like, I told you that that the that that case with somebody with with cancer. That that's certainly a case. But we get people who use our bone broth as electrolyte for their cats and dogs. MARGUERITE + KARL (45:26) I see hair growing on my body that I never I swear it's because you're bone crop. Like my hair's gotten thicker but I have hair on my arms a lot more and like trust me like Your body's alive, right? Uh-huh. Yeah, and you know, people always say the energy yeah, I told you that that the that case with somebody with with cancer. That that's certainly case. But we get people who use our bone broth as electrolyte for their cats and dogs. greg (45:53) Which is crazy. Somebody wrote in, you know, my my my my s my cat was sick ⁓ and she's sixteen years old. We thought she was gonna pass away, couldn't take anything down and you know, served your bone broth MARGUERITE + KARL (45:53) Wow. Somebody worked in, you know, my my my my s my cat was sick ⁓ and she's sixteen years old, we thought she was gonna pass away, can we take anything down and you know, preserved your bone broth? greg (46:04) and it seems like electrolytes now. She feels like she's like two, three years old. And I was like, that's kinda cool as well. MARGUERITE + KARL (46:09) it seems like electrolytes now she feels like she's like two or three years old. I'm like, that's kind of cool as well. Yeah. That's awesome. There there you go. There's a new skew and a new target out there, Yeah. Butcher's bone broth pet edition. Well, I actually just gave our dog bone broth the other night, but it was like one specifically for pets. I didn't even think about butcher's bone broth. I should try that. Right. We can make our cups together. The ingredients are fine for animals, right? Yeah. greg (46:21) huh. Yeah. It's ⁓ Yeah, same same thing. Same like that's the beauty, like when you think about pets and even your kids, you probably want the same quality, which is less is more, right? MARGUERITE + KARL (46:36) yeah, for sure. And even kids, I know a really good way for me to get my daughter to drink it is the hot chocolate, which has become pretty popular. I think that's delicious because I I can't even taste the bone broth on that. It's it's delicious. greg (46:43) yeah. Yep. ⁓ yep. Same. Yeah. Our our we have an intern this summer and she is currently make I think her and her marketing manager were playing around with this bone broth margarita. And I was like, okay, that's a totally different demographic because that's not I mean, I I'm not a I don't drink alcohol ⁓ or margaritas as much, but it yeah, yeah, bit bone broth. Get your get your protein in while you get your booze on. MARGUERITE + KARL (47:00) Well brought margarita. I was like, Okay, that's a totally different demographic 'cause ⁓ that's not I mean I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get your get your protein while you get your reviews on. How cool would it be to see that, you know, at a staple at every bar, right? Or having people pull it out of their bag to add a little bone broth to their drinks. Yes. Yeah, totally. okay. So I have a fun little game. It it's just basically rapid fire. But this is fun, So, okay. what's always in your refrigerator right now? greg (47:17) Ha. Mm-hmm. Okay. I mean i bone broth, I mean I always I mean I get it every single day. Sorry. MARGUERITE + KARL (47:35) Yeah. Yeah. I figured same. ⁓ okay. One thing that you haven't like from a crunchy standpoint, what is one thing that you kind of want to swap but you just haven't yet? greg (47:47) what do I want to swap out? MARGUERITE + KARL (47:48) Yeah, for a better version. Do you have habits that are hard to break? Yeah. greg (47:52) This is hard, but I know like a category. I think sauces are one of them. Like like if you add like economy or whatever to some things you eat, like let's say sweet potato fries that you air fry with your kids and but you get all these different sauces. You know, they're tasty, right, in some ways, but like you look in the backpack, there's stuff in it. And then, you know, so I I I like sauces, so like I just need to be more disciplined in in just with my kids just choosing whatever the best ones are. MARGUERITE + KARL (47:55) Yeah. Tasty. And then and then you know, so I I I like sauces, so like I just needed Kids just choosing whatever the best are. Yeah. That's a really good one. That is a good one because so many people love their condiments. I will say I just started maybe six months ago, started playing around and kind of making my own real quick because it's really fast. And like honey mustard's a really easy one. but even so I'm still working on ketchup. I can't get a perfect ketchup. But I know mayonnaise is pretty easy too. Those are really basic ones, but greg (48:30) ⁓ huh. MARGUERITE + KARL (48:42) They are really they have taken me like five minutes. I even copied a really good white sauce for chicken teriyaki and stuff. And that was actually yeah, that was delicious. Yeah. And then this is from a Lebanese restaurant. I love their garlic whip. And I made it and it tastes exactly like it. Yeah. And it's just so easy. I think sauces is a good one. It's it's very hard to overcome like what you think it should taste like. Yeah. greg (48:45) Yep. MARGUERITE + KARL (49:06) Right. So you make you get a healthier brand or you make your own and it tastes a little different. You're like, okay, well, that's not french fries and ketchup anymore. But once you just kind of get rid of that idea, it's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm always like, this tastes so good. But then I forget. I've had I've been acquiring my taste for like twenty years. So people are like, This does not taste exactly like that. And I'm like, Yes, it does. okay. greg (49:12) huh. MARGUERITE + KARL (49:30) What is a clean brand that you love that's not butcher's? greg (49:33) so I have a health regimen myself. So I was just telling you, I I use tart cherry juice to help with a couple of reasons. One is that it helps me sleep, I guess, a little at evening, but really if I do workouts, it just it's really good for your muscles, right? In terms of recovery. ⁓ there's a couple of brands MARGUERITE + KARL (49:36) Yeah. There's a couple brands greg (49:49) Out there, I'll be surprised. Like, there's there's Lakewood, there's Knuxford, ⁓ there's some private labels from Walmart and Trader Joe's. I I'm I'm surprised actually. I think the TJ's one is is the best so far that's not branded. And the reason why is there's sediments on the very bottom compared to the other ones, which you can confused with, but yeah, that that's one I liked a lot. And then what's another brand that's low? I like MARGUERITE + KARL (49:50) out there. I'll be surprised. Like there's there's Lakewood, there's Knutford, ⁓ there's some private labels from Walmart and Treasure's. I I'm I'm surprised actually. I think TJ's one is is the best so far that's not branded. And the reason why is there's sediments on the very bottom compared to the other ones, which I'm confused with. But yeah, that that's one I like a a lot. And then there's another brand that's a little greg (50:17) honey. MARGUERITE + KARL (50:17) I like honey. That's sometimes when I get, but it's only I I find that honey is the best hyper local. yeah. That you can get locally at Sprouts, for example. ⁓ yeah, I I like kind of local honey. greg (50:18) s from time to time when I get it, but it's only I I find that honey is best hyper local because just 'cause how they pollinate. So, you know, there's there's some that like the Bay Area Honey Company, that you can get locally at Sprouts, for example. ⁓ yeah, I I like kind of local honey. MARGUERITE + KARL (50:35) Yeah. I I always go for local honey too, except there is one. Do you know who Paul Salandino is? I feel like I bring him up a lot on the podcast. Yeah. He's he's a carnivore guy, but he has a brand, it's called Lineage Provisions. greg (50:40) No. Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (50:47) And they're not in stores. I think you could just get directly get it from his site. But they have a really good honey. He's very specific. So he they it's tested for like glyphosate and everything. That's the only one I will get that's not local. Or beekeeper's natural super honey, I I will get too. But other than that, I'm like all local. Yeah. okay. So what is a wellness trend that you think is like genuinely here to stay? greg (50:57) Yeah, yeah. Going back to natural. It's the simplest. that's the wave that everybody I mean that I I've noticed, and I think it's only gonna improve more and more. but I I pause a little because I think one of the things that could stop it or or slow it down is you know, the last decade or so. You look at our economics like MARGUERITE + KARL (51:28) decades I you greg (51:31) you look at the stock market's gone up, right? So some parts of the population are able to afford it. You know, I I do wonder if there is a recession, if you know, we were actually in a K shaped economy, which some parts of population aren't doing as well. Like would would people would people still pay for back to natural products if they're done the right way versus something that is the same category but is ultra processed and MARGUERITE + KARL (51:33) some parts of the population are able to afford it. Yeah, I I do wonder if there is a recession, if and then we were actually in a K-shaped economy, which some parts of the population are doing as well. Like would would would people still pay for back to natural products if they're done the right way versus something that is the same category but is ultra processed? greg (51:57) currently right now the wellness trend is still going strong. MARGUERITE + KARL (51:58) But definitely right now the wellness trend is still going strong. We always say too, and I know every family is different, but we're always like, investing in your health with natural products is a lot cheaper than investing in cancer treatments. Yeah. So man, I gotta get that shirt that just says back to natural. That's like my favorite slogan. Yes. ⁓ what do you think? Is there any wellness trend that you think is overhyped? greg (52:10) Totally. Hundred percent. Yeah. ⁓ you know, Carl, you you asked me that question about And what bugs me is like I was at I think I was at Costco the day and I saw like protein cereal and I was like, What the fuck? You know, like I mean they're like everything's trying to slap on protein, right? And and i it it's becomes much more of a buzzword than the intent of like what it includes. And you know, everybody you probably many of your speakers probably have mentioned it like, you know. MARGUERITE + KARL (52:35) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I probably probably have one of their speakers. greg (52:48) The mass audience of of of population in the US, we get a fair amount of protein already, but the thought of like more is more is one and that you can just slap on protein on everything, right? like you think about like the carnivore diet, it's great, it cleans the body, but like w like what if I thought about if I connected a carnivore diet, protein, and then all of a sudden the cereal and the Cheerios that my kids eat or would eat or whatever, like the I'm not sure if I connect the dots there, right? MARGUERITE + KARL (52:49) mass audience of of of population in the US, we get a fair amount of protein already. But the thought of like more is is one and that you can slap on protein everything, right? Yeah. like you think about like the carnivore diet, that's great, it cleans the body, but like like what if I thought about if I connected carnivore diet protein and then all of a sudden the cereal and materials that my kids eat or w would eat or whatever, like the I'm not sure if I connect the dots there. Yeah. greg (53:17) So some of that parts that I and I'm not necessarily sold on. MARGUERITE + KARL (53:18) So of that parts I I'm necessarily sold on. I hear you on that. I agree. I actually saw someone else said that and I it resonated with me too. Yeah. so do you have any other questions, babe? What keeps you grounded? greg (53:30) ⁓ so having good strong upbringing certainly helps with like parents have raised us in a pretty humble way, partly just 'cause they had to, because they weren't like rich or anything. I think having family probably is a big part. I think having a regimen of some sorts that y you can stick to, I think just really grounds you. realizing MARGUERITE + KARL (53:42) I think family just really round you realizing greg (53:56) Realizing what you want to do with your life in some strange way. Like I'm in like my forties now. I'm not sure if this is midlife crisis. I mean, this is kind of go maybe goes to your podcast. MARGUERITE + KARL (53:56) Realizing what you wanna do with your life in some strange way. Like I'm in like my forties. greg (54:04) it's not just about making money, it's about making impact. And where you can see yourself making impact kind of feeds the soul and hopefully makes you live a richer life. Like and not financially, it's like a richer, meaningful, high quality MARGUERITE + KARL (54:05) It's not just about making money, it's about making impact. Yeah. Where you can see yourself making impact kind of feeds the soul and hopefully makes you live a richer life. Like not financially, it's like a richer, meaningful, high greg (54:18) So I don't know. Some some kind of perspective from that kind of keeps me grounded because then it's like you're working towards something. MARGUERITE + KARL (54:17) life. So I don't know, some some kind of perspective from that kind of keeps me grounded because then it's like you're working towards something greg (54:26) But that means it's not just what you achieve but how you go about it. And that matters to me. MARGUERITE + KARL (54:26) but that it's not just what you achieve but how you go about it. And that matters to me. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, beautifully said. I mean we're in the same spot. You Early forties here, We just had kids starting five years ago and our perspective has changed, right? It's it's no longer about climbing the ladder and making as much as you can. It's more about that impact and sharing in the community and just having those great relationships to really enrich your life. That's what it's all about. Yeah. So where can everyone find you? greg (54:44) Mm-mm. Yep, a hundred percent. if you want to find out more about our brand, it's just butchers.co if you're interested in finding about us. you can also find us on Instagram, TikTok under Butcher's Bone Broth. If you wanna find me, find me on LinkedIn. it's just literally Greg Locke, Locke spelled L-O-K. And if you want to find our products, we're in Whole Foods and Sprouts Nashley. We're in Costco rotations throughout the year. we'll launching Hive. We'll we're in MARGUERITE + KARL (55:03) Do you wanna find Washington Ivy, we're right now and hopefully expanding to a lot more. yeah, and then a lot of other great other retailers. Awesome. greg (55:19) all super targets right now and hopefully expanding to a lot more. yeah, and a lot a couple other great other retailers. yeah, I thanks for doing what you guys do. yeah, back to natural is the way it it it should be. So if there's any way we can unite forces to do something more powerful, just just let us know. MARGUERITE + KARL (55:37) all right, well thank you. Thanks for your time Thank you so much. Thank you. You too. Take care. greg (55:39) Awesome. All right, you guys have a good one. Talk to you later. Bye guys. Bye.

• ABOUT THIS GUEST

  Greg Lok is the COO of Butcher's Bone Broth, the #1 fresh refrigerated bone broth in the US. Butcher's was born from Rolly Roti, a San Francisco food truck started by Swiss butcher, Thomas Odermatt, 24 years ago. Greg came from the tech world, most recently Cliff Bar, and joined Thomas to help scale Butcher's mission of making the cleanest, most traditional fresh bone broth available at mainstream retail. Butcher's is now in Whole Foods, Sprouts, Costco, Target Super Centers and expanding.

  👀 you can find Greg / Butchers Boen Broth:
  
  + on the web butchers.co
  + on instagram @butchersbonebroth

👀 you can find us:

🎥 watch → YouTube
👂 listen → spotify, apple podcasts, amazon music & iheartradio
💌 read → substack (weekly emails & all the extras!)

🤩 follow along with us on our socials!
instagram → @crunchypod
facebook → crunchypod
youtube → @crunchypod
pinterest → /unapologeticallycrunchy

📝 on the web → crunchypod.com
🛍️ shop merch → unapologeticallycrunchy.com

💫 connect with marguerite → @unapologeticallycrunchy + unapologeticallycrunchy.substack.com

💫 connect with karl → uncommonstandpoint.substack.com

💜 peace, love + CRUNCH!