We've Been Wearing Shoes Wrong Our Whole Lives with Anya of Anya’s Reviews
#36 We've Been Wearing Shoes Wrong Our Whole Lives with Anya of Anya’s Reviews
We had SO much fun recording this one. Anya of Anya's Reviews is basically the internet's barefoot shoe expert…she’s got her own review website, her own shop and she’s (along with her team!) the founder of the Barefoot Shoe Expo. She also has one of the most relatable origin stories we've heard: a birthday dinner, heeled ankle boots, and a big toe that ended up locked in place during her second pregnancy. What followed was a multi-year recovery that completely changed how she thinks about shoes and now she's on a mission to change how the rest of us think about them too.
This episode is packed. We talk about what barefoot shoes actually are, why conventional shoes might be contributing to bunions (that research on unshod vs. shod populations is wild), the pelvic floor/foot connection that blew our minds, how to transition without wrecking yourself, whether orthotics and barefoot shoes can coexist (yes!) and what to look for in kids' shoes.
Plus the story of how the Barefoot Shoe Expo went from 125 people in a warehouse to 1,800 at a Chicago convention is seriously inspiring!
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:46 Anya's origin story- foot injury, second pregnancy, and a birthday dinner gone wrong
7:40 What makes a shoe "barefoot" (the 4 criteria)
9:30 What a narrow toe box actually does to your feet
11:38 The pelvic floor / foot connection
13:15 The spectrum, from full barefoot to transition shoes
14:47 How to transition without going too fast
18:56 Bunions, conventional shoes and the research on unshod populations
21:31 How quickly you'll feel a difference (6 weeks!)
22:18 Conditions that barefoot shoes can help with
24:02 The style question…do they actually look good?
26:23 The biggest mistake people make when switching
27:15 Kids and barefoot shoes
30:15 How Anya vets and tests every shoe
35:57 The sock question (toe socks changed everything)
38:24 The Barefoot Shoe Expo origin story and growth
45:39 Grounding shoes (Anya's honest take)
48:19 Where to find Anya’s Reviews
Mentions
Transcript
MARGUERITE + KARL (00:00) am so excited that you're on because I used to be like when I was pregnant in 2020, I used to be in this, I think it's called non-toxic mommies Facebook group. And that is where I learned so much about all the baby stuff. And I was trying to, you know, make the best decisions for that. And I had learned about you with the barefoot shoes. Everyone would always recommend your website. So I'm like, you're kind of like a little bit of an OG. Celebrity. So I'm really excited to have you here. And so yeah, I thought this subject, it seems like a a lot of people don't seem to know. And even when they do learn about it, you know, they are like, well, barefoot shoes aren't as cute and blah, blah, blah. And you are all about fashion and styling them to where they do look cute and you post dupes, which I love. So Anya (00:26) Thank you. Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (00:46) That was something that I'm excited to talk to you about too. take us back. Okay, so I think I read that you started having issues with your own feet and that's kind of what got you into looking into barefoot shoes. Anya (00:57) so I first started having foot pain actually as a kid, and had orthotics at the age of nine and some issues from a young age, and was used to wearing supportive shoes, but it kind of kept my issues at bay until I was pregnant with my second child. And it was near the end of my pregnancy. It was actually on my birthday. MARGUERITE + KARL (01:04) And some issues from a young age and was used to wearing supportive But it kind of kept my issues at bay until I was pregnant with my second And it was near the end of my pregnancy. It was actually on my birthday. Anya (01:16) I went out to dinner and I wore a pair of heeled little heeled booties, little ankle boots, and it jammed my big toe up in this locked position. But I didn't know it at the time and it didn't get diagnosed for a very long time after MARGUERITE + KARL (01:16) I went out to dinner and I wore a pair of heeled, little heeled booties, little ankle boots, and it jammed my big toe up in this locked position. But I didn't know it at the time, and it didn't get diagnosed for a very long time. Anya (01:32) that, probably a year and a half. But I so I kept walking on it and my big toe wasn't moving. MARGUERITE + KARL (01:32) A year and a half. But I so I kept walking on it, and my big toe wasn't moving. And it got swollen, it got hot, I could barely have anything touch it. By the time my son was born, a couple months later, I was. I mean, of course, I was preoccupied with other things, but I was already struggling mobility wise. And in the spring, a few months after he was born, I was like, okay, I Anya (01:39) And it got swollen, it got hot, I could barely have anything touch it. ⁓ by the time my son was born, a couple months later, I was, I mean, of course, I was preoccupied with other things, but I was already struggling mobility-wise. And in the spring, a few months after he was born, I was like, okay, I have to go try to figure this out. And I went to the d podiatrist and they ran me through the whole gamut of MARGUERITE + KARL (02:02) Out and I went to the podiatrist and they ran me through the whole gamut of ultra-supportive shoes, orthopedic shoes. I was wearing shoes 100% of the time in the house, you know, out of the house, everywhere, because they they told me that I just have tricky feet and I need to support them all the time. Anya (02:08) ultra supportive shoes, ortho orthopedic shoes. I was wearing shoes 100% of the time in the house, you know, out of the house, everywhere, because they they told me that I just have tricky feet and I need to support them all the time. And that kind of helped keep things at bay, but it really didn't remove the issue. And so MARGUERITE + KARL (02:26) And that kind of helped keep things at bay, but it really didn't remove the issue. And so Anya (02:39) I was getting through life with orthopedic shoes and with brick and stocks. and I had this big swollen, big MARGUERITE + KARL (02:39) I getting through life with orthopaedic shoes and with Perkin and I had this big swollen Anya (02:48) toe joint. They put me in a boot, they had me go off of my foot for six weeks, and it everything just got drastically worse. MARGUERITE + KARL (02:48) big toe they put me in a boot, they had me go off of my foot for six and it everything just got drastically Anya (02:57) I was in so much pain and it it was it was so confusing because they were telling me MARGUERITE + KARL (02:57) I was in so much pain. And it it was it was so confusing because they were telling me rest and it will get better and it will heal. But the more I rested honestly the worse I felt. Yeah. That makes sense. Sometimes you just need like movement, fluids going and Anya (03:04) Rest and it will get better and it will heal, but the more I rested, honestly, the worse I felt. Yeah. And nobody accurately recognized the weakness in my foot that had led to the issue in the first place because everything was so unstable. And so I was in the midst of this hellish period of time where I couldn't really walk. I couldn't hold my child. I didn't know what to do because following the medical advice was making me worse. MARGUERITE + KARL (03:18) The weakness in my foot that had led to the issue in the first place because everything was so And so was in the midst of this hellish period of time where I couldn't really walk, I couldn't hold my I didn't know what to do because following the medical advice was making me worse. Anya (03:39) And I was just casting about, was MARGUERITE + KARL (03:39) And I was just casting about. Anya (03:41) researching, trying to figure out what to do. A good friend of mine recommended that I read Whole Body Barefoot by Katie Bowman. And she talked about strengthening the feet and rehabbing it and treating it like you would, like if you had a shoulder injury. You know, how would you deal with that? You wouldn't just rest it forever, right? You wouldn't just keep it in a sling for the rest of your life. MARGUERITE + KARL (03:42) researching trying to figure out what to do. A good friend of mine recommended that I read Whole Body Barefoot by Katie Bowman. And she talked about strengthening and rehabbing it and treating it like you would like if you had a shoulder injury. You know, how would you deal with that? You wouldn't just rest it forever. Right. Yeah. Just keep it in a sling for the rest of your life. Right. You would do exercises. You would try to mobilize it. Anya (04:05) You would do exercises, you would try to mobilize it and take that philosophy that we use for the rest of the body and apply it to the feet. And that made so much sense. And around the same time, I also discovered the MARGUERITE + KARL (04:10) and take that philosophy that we use for the rest of the body and apply it the thief. And that made so much sense. And around the same time I also discovered Anya (04:20) Ultra Incident MARGUERITE + KARL (04:20) brand Ultra I'm sorry, what Anya (04:24) Ultra. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:23) that? You cut up Ultra. ⁓ Ultra? Okay. So that was the first foot shaped brand. Anya (04:27) So that was the first foot-shaped brand that I had ever encountered. And I happened to come across it at fleet feet, which is a chain that my podiatrist had recommended I get orthopedic shoes from. And I kept going back and exchanging them. They had this exchange policy. So I would wear them for a while and I go back and be like, no, it hurts. Like it doesn't feel good. I hate them. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:32) And I happened to come across it at week we which is a chain that my podiatrist was like, when did I get orthopedic shoes from? And I kept going back and exchanging and they had this the exchange policy. So I would wear them for a while and I'd go back and be like, No, it hurts, like it doesn't feel good, I hate them. Anya (04:52) And then eventually one of the salespeople brought out an ultra. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:52) And then eventually one of the salespeople Anya (04:56) Shoe and it had this anatomically shaped toe box. And I just was like, this is exactly what I need. Like, how did I not know that this existed before? And also, it makes so much sense because I'm looking at the two shoes, you know, the one that I'm returning and the one they gave me. And the one that I'm returning is like pointy at the tip. And here I am with this persistent. MARGUERITE + KARL (04:58) and it had this anatomically shaped toe box and I just was like this is exactly what I need. Like how did I not know that this existed before? And also it makes so much sense because I'm looking at the two shoes, you know, the one that I'm returning and the one they gave me and the one that I'm returning is like pointy at the tip. And here I am with this persistent, Anya (05:25) severe big toe pain. MARGUERITE + KARL (05:25) severe big toe pain. Anya (05:27) And every single shoe I'm putting in, even these $200 orthopedic fancy shoes, they're slanting in and not letting my big toe be straight. So things started to come into focus around that time. But I was still in such a low spot that I had to do a lot of work. MARGUERITE + KARL (05:27) And every single shoe I'm putting in, even these $200 orthopedic fancy shoes, they're slanting in and not letting my big toe be straight. So things started to come into focus around that time. But I was still in such a low spot that had to do a lot of work. Anya (05:50) in order to get my foot strength back. And I did not jump into barefoot shoes right away, even though I knew about them and I had learned about them from Katie Bowman and my friend Miranda. So I was aware of this as kind of like an end goal, I guess. Like I wanted to be able to walk without support and to walk barefoot. but for a good year after that, this was like a you know multi-year saga. MARGUERITE + KARL (05:50) in order to get my foot strength back and I did not jump into barefoot shoes right away, even though I knew about them and I had learned about them from Katie Bowman and my friend Miranda. So I was aware of that I was kind of like an end goal I guess. Wanted to be able to walk without support and to walk but for a good year after that, this was like a multi-year soccer, I was like the strength in the exercise that is I was trying to get comfortable without so much support, but nobody really ⁓ was there to guide me because I was going against my podiatrist Anya (06:17) I was doing foot strengthening exercises. I was trying to get comfortable without so much support, but nobody really ⁓ was there to guide me because I was going against my podiatrist's advice MARGUERITE + KARL (06:31) and I didn't have a good Anya (06:32) and I didn't have a good I mean the resources that are available today just weren't available then. So, anyways, this is a really long answer to your story, but ⁓ MARGUERITE + KARL (06:35) I mean the resources that are available today just weren't available then. Right. So anyways, this is a really long answer to your story. no, that's okay. I started wearing my orthotics with bearfish shoes actually. And that was just I was just trialling Anya (06:44) I started wearing my orthotics with barefoot shoes actually. And that was just I was just trialing, trial and erroring. And that ended up working really well for me. So I did that for a good like six months and started walking a lot more. I started doing exercise, Pilates, my foot exercises. And eventually I didn't need the orthotics anymore. And so it's been now. MARGUERITE + KARL (06:53) And that ended up working really well for me. So I did that for a good like six months and started walking a lot more. I started doing exercise gloddies, my foot And eventually I didn't need the orthotics anymore. And so it's been now a good Anya (07:12) A good Nine years I think since I have worn barefoot shoes without the orthotics and ten years of wearing them with an orthotic. MARGUERITE + KARL (07:16) Nine years I think since I have worn barefoot shoes without the orthotic. Wow. That's really good. Cause I was gonna ask you if there was a transition period too, and that makes total sense because if you're so used to the arch, so you put in the orthotics for the arch, but your toes are still able to have the ⁓ room that it needs. So that makes sense. Anya (07:40) Yeah, I think that one of the reasons why I was drawn to educating people or just more like spreading awareness about this was because those types of avenues towards more natural footwear were not talked about. And I wanted to make sure that people realized that you could access the concept from a variety of different ways and it MARGUERITE + KARL (07:57) Right, right. And I wanted access the concept from a variety of different ways and that it wasn't just ⁓ marathon Anya (08:05) It wasn't just ⁓ marathon runners wearing five fingers and that's all that it was for. MARGUERITE + KARL (08:05) runners wearing five fingers and that's that it was for. That was that was my first exposure to this was the five finger shoes, and this was like and I don't know, fifteen years ago, probably more. And ⁓ it was actually a boss I had at the time, he liked to run and he got the five finger toes or five finger five toe shoes. And Anya (08:18) Mm-hmm. Mm. MARGUERITE + KARL (08:26) I remember, you know, poking fun at him for it at the time. Had no idea. I just thought it looked weird. You know, I thought that you needed the ones with the big soles and the arch support and everything else. And that was the cool thing and the right thing to do. and now so many things. Gosh, now, yeah. I don't I don't own a pair of those, but I would not hesitate to wear at this point. Well, I that's almost all I wear is barefoot shoes now. But I did not have any foot issues. So it wasn't a problem for me to just go in from one shoe to a barefoot shoe. But I used to wear heels. Anya (08:31) Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (08:54) All throughout my 20s, and I can't, I don't know how I ever did that. I lived in New York City. I'm running around New York City in heels like every day. I could I haven't I couldn't even tell you the last time I wore heels. I can't. I don't even know how I did that. Like it just seems like it's so painful just thinking about it. Right. But I was really happy that I had come across this information from you before I had our kids because they always have barefoot shoes and I kind of know what to look for now. Anya (08:57) Ha ha. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (09:22) ⁓ what would you say are some of the things that you would be looking into for barefoot shoes? So we mentioned like the toe box. Yeah, and this would be true. Anya (09:30) Yeah, and this would be true for a child as well as an adult, but I do have slightly different criteria for s small children and especially infants. But in general, a barefoot shoe has an anatomically shaped toe box, which if you boil it down, it means that you have space for the big toe. MARGUERITE + KARL (09:40) In general, a barefoot shoe has an anatomically shaped toe box, which if you boil it down, it means that you have space for the big toe. Because there's a lot of different foot shapes and they don't all work for everybody, but you can tell it's an anatomically shaped shoe because it's asymmetrical and it has big toe space. Whereas a conventional shoe is symmetrical and it comes more to a point. Anya (09:49) Because there's a lot of different foot shapes and they don't all work for everybody. But you can tell it's an anatomically shaped shoe because it's asymmetrical and it has big toe space. Whereas a conventional shoe was symmetrical and it comes more to a point. Yeah. Sometimes you get rounded toe, all almond toe or square toe, but all of them are narrower. MARGUERITE + KARL (10:09) Sometimes like a round at the all ⁓ almond toe. But all of them are narrower Anya (10:17) in the toes than they are at the ball of the foot, which is not how feet are naturally shaped. Naturally we're wider at the toes, or at least the same. Some people are are very straight out, but you're I wouldn't say that a narrower toe box than the ball MARGUERITE + KARL (10:17) in the toes than they are at the ball of the foot, which is not how feet are naturally shaped. Naturally we're wider at the toes, or at least the same. Some people are are very straight out, but you're I wouldn't say that a narrower toe box Anya (10:38) of the foot is an anatomically shaped shoe. MARGUERITE + KARL (10:40) Right. And with those with the pointy front, like does that kind of cause you to land on your heel more rather than landing on the the fore your forefoot, I guess is what it's called? Anya (10:50) Well, it puts all the pressure on the ball if you're f I mean that there's a lot of different things that that can happen. If your big toe can't splay out and it can't bend, then your arch can't articulate as well. And so it's really a whole foot experience. But one, there's been some interesting research on compression of the toes and how it restricts blood flow to the plantar fascia. MARGUERITE + KARL (10:53) Yeah. Sure. restricts blood flow to the plantar fascia. So there's even some circulation issues when you're squishing the toes. Anya (11:15) So there's even some circulation issues when you're squishing the MARGUERITE + KARL (11:20) really interesting. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then you don't your muscles obviously are a little bit weaker in that it's not just your the muscles in your feet, right? 'Cause the way that you're walking could affect your calves and your knees versus like putting pressure on or pressure the support from your ankles, I guess. In Anya (11:19) It's really interesting. MARGUERITE + KARL (11:37) glutes and your pillows. Yeah. Anya (11:38) In your glutes and your pelvic floor, there's a strong pelvic floor foot connection, which is really interesting. And so there's modalities for healing diastasis recti after childbirth. And they recommend wearing completely flat and flexible footwear and and roomy footwear because all of that motion it's connected up higher up the chain. And so you're actually MARGUERITE + KARL (11:52) A it's connected up higher up the chain and so you're actually Anya (12:04) using your pelvic floor when you're using your feet more. MARGUERITE + KARL (12:04) using your pelvic floor you're using your feet more. Okay. Everything is connected. Yeah, absolutely. Anya (12:10) Yeah, it's really MARGUERITE + KARL (12:12) So besides an anatomically shaped Anya (12:12) So besides an anatomically shaped ⁓ toe box for what would make a barefoot shoe, ⁓ also a flat level sole, which is known as zero drop because there's no drop from the heel to the toe, it's just even across, and ⁓ flexibility in the sole so that it moves with your feet and your feet can move the way they would naturally, and then finally that it's attached to your foot so you're not MARGUERITE + KARL (12:20) Sole, which is known as zero drop because there's no drop from the heel to the toe, it's just even across. And a flexibility in the sole so that it moves with your feet and your feet can move the way they would naturally, and then finally that it's attached to your foot. So you're not like a flip-flop or a slide where you have to hold the shoe on your foot with your toes. It's just securely attached on Anya (12:40) It's not like a flip-flop or a slide where you have to hold the shoe on your foot with your toes. It's just securely attached on its own. MARGUERITE + KARL (12:48) own. So is it safe to say like essentially it's a cover for your foot? But your foot would just be its natural in its natural state, toes as wide as they need to go and have room to wiggle. And it's it's basically just a cover that would allow you to walk around out in public. Yeah. Anya (12:53) Yeah. Yeah, and hence the the n the name barefoot shoe because it's as if you are barefoot. that is the purest barefoot shoe. And many barefoot shoes, it's more of a spectrum. MARGUERITE + KARL (13:07) Mm-hmm. Many bear fish. Anya (13:15) So if you're on the the one end where it's the the close to barefoot as possible, that's where I recommend small children and and babies. MARGUERITE + KARL (13:23) babies, Anya (13:24) that's where you want to be getting is only that because they need all of that articulation, they need all of the flexibility. Like you don't want to restrict those developing feet in any way. Adults who have spent a lot of their years already in conventional footwear and in a really ⁓ you know, a lot of pavement and a lot of unnatural environments, oftentimes a variety of types of shoes are needed that may not be pure 100% MARGUERITE + KARL (13:24) that's where you want to be getting is only that because they need all of that articulation, they need all of the flexibility. Like you don't want to restrict those to in any way. Adult who have spent a lot of their years already in conventional footwear and in a really you know a lot of pavement and a lot of unnatural environments, oftentimes a variety of types of shoes are needed that may not be pure 100% but might have a little bit more cushion or thickness in the sole, little bit more stability in the sole. And I still consider because if you compare that to a like a hoka or something, I mean it's just still night and day difference, but it's just not quite like a full Anya (13:52) barefoot feeling, but might have a little bit more cushion or thickness in the sole or a little bit more stability in the sole. And I still consider that to be on the spectrum because if you compare that to a like a hoka or something, I mean it's just still night and day difference, but it's just not quite like a full barefoot feeling. MARGUERITE + KARL (14:12) barefoot feeling. Right. So somebody who's in their thirties or forties and has worn conventional shoes their whole life, right? And they've got the the curve on their feet and all that. You would recommend like just sort easing into it then? ⁓ so yeah, obviously for the adults. So like maybe one of the shoes you mentioned, so not not necessarily like the the pure barefoot shoe, but something else. And then I assume would you do that kind of like part time to kind of get used to it and like transition into the way it feels and the way it supports your body so you don't run into issues with being uncomfortable or any kind of pain, that kind of thing, and then work down the chain. Is that right? Yeah. Anya (14:47) Yeah, yeah. So I I usually try to advise people to not jump in all at once, even though it's tempting, for a few different reasons. But one is that oftentimes you don't know exactly what kind of shoes you're gonna like best and which ones are gonna work best for your life. And then there's also the transitioning component where your body's getting used to it, and it can take some time for your muscles to fatigue. MARGUERITE + KARL (15:06) And then there's also the transitioning component where your body's getting used to it. And it can take some time for your muscles to Anya (15:14) fatigue and kind of reach that point where they're like, this is too much. So you might be wearing them for six weeks before you realize that you've gone a little bit too far. ⁓ so that's why it's a good idea if you can get yourself MARGUERITE + KARL (15:14) fatigue and kind of reach that point where they're like, this is too much. So you might be wearing them for six weeks before you realize that you've gone a little bit too far. so that's why it's a good idea if you can get Anya (15:29) Sometimes it's hard because you just wanna stop wearing tight shoes. MARGUERITE + KARL (15:29) to. Sometimes it's hard because you just wanna stop wearing tight shoes. Yeah. Anya (15:35) But ⁓ yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (15:35) That's what I did. Oopsies. Anya (15:39) If you can, you know, I recommend just one pair of shoes and wearing them for good few months before you buy a second pair and before you start throwing out shoes. Because you never know, you may have a day where you wanna go back to that comfort sneaker that you were used to wearing for exercise or whatever. so doing it step by step, I think it helps people have more success. MARGUERITE + KARL (15:51) 'Cause you never know, you may have To that comfort sneaker that you were used to wearing for so doing it step by step, I think it helps people have more success. Anya (16:06) It's the people that dive in, get rid of all their shoes, spend a lot of money on new ones, and then six months later they might realize, actually, these MARGUERITE + KARL (16:06) It's the people that dive in, get rid of all their shoes, spend a lot of money on new ones, and then six months later they might realize actually. Anya (16:17) shoes that I bought don't fit me super great, you know, or I realize I have different preferences. I want them to be this amount of thickness, and I got them all this amount of thickness. So you you figure it out as you go along because the reality is. MARGUERITE + KARL (16:17) These shoes that I bought don't fit me super you know, or I realize I have different preferences, I want them to be this amount of thickness, and I got them all this amount of thickness. you figure it out as you go along because the reality is we're not used to paying attention to how our feet feel. Used to ignoring them and believing that shoes need to be broken in and you know, this is just the way they are. Yep. So it's a new paradigm. Anya (16:33) we're not used to paying attention to how our feet feel. We're used to ignoring them and believing that shoes need to be broken in and you know, this is just the way they are. So it's a new paradigm and we're waking up to our feet a lot of us for the first time in decades. MARGUERITE + KARL (16:47) And up to our feet, a lot of us for the first time in decades. No, I like that too. so we've we've worn barefoot shoes for a while and honestly like I try not to wear shoes as much as possible. So working from home makes that a little bit easier. But you know, in the past and I think what most people would do is you don't pay attention to your feet, like you're saying. So then at the end of the day, when your feet are sore and you're tired, like what do you do? You take your shoes off and that's your relief. But now that we've been wearing barefoot shoes, like you don't need that relief. I never find myself I just thought about this, I never really find myself thinking, God, I can't wait to like get my shoes off 'cause they hurt or it's constricting or anything like that. Like you just feel normal. Anya (17:21) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's a whole new world and I I love that. And I love being able to get dressed up for things and to not be uncomfortable. I I hated that growing up and I would have these cute shoes and I would just hardly ever wear them because they were so uncomfortable. But MARGUERITE + KARL (17:32) I yeah. Anya (17:43) when I did wear them, I was like, these are so cute. It was just this like marriage of beauty and pain always. Like I just always believed that they had to go together. And so then the rest of the time when I just couldn't handle the thought of being in discomfort, I was wearing my less cute shoes. And I don't have that choice to make anymore because it's all like all of my shoes are comfortable and they're all cute too. MARGUERITE + KARL (17:44) did wear them, I was like, these are so cute. It was just this like marriage of beauty and pain always. Like I always believed that they had to go together. And so then the rest of when I just couldn't handle the thought of being in discomfort, I was wearing my less cute shoes. And I don't have that choice to make anymore because Anya (18:09) So it's just a lot more fun, I think, ⁓ because MARGUERITE + KARL (18:07) all like all of my shoes are comfortable and they're all cute too. No, that's great. Yeah. Anya (18:13) There's so many more so many more options and I never have to feel uncomfortable. MARGUERITE + KARL (18:19) Yeah. I love that. It's like you would always like if we're wearing heels, you'd have flats in your bag for later on in the evening or whatever it was. But even Anya (18:24) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (18:28) even with sneakers, I have these pair of really like cute sparkly sneakers. And they're one of my favorite. And I can't wear them anymore because they're they're thick. They're so like hard. There's no flexibility. And then the toe box is like way too narrow. Which what over time Wearing conventional shoes that have narrow toe boxes, what does that end up like? Could that lead to things in the future when we get older, like problems with our feet? Anya (18:56) Yeah, I definitely have seen a lot of correlation between that and it just makes intuitive sense that and and there's there's research on unshod people versus shod people that basically bunions happen in primarily in populations of people who wear shoes and that if you don't wear shoes you don't get bunions. So that suggests that it's the shoes that people wear. MARGUERITE + KARL (19:03) It just makes There's there's research on unshine. basically bunions happen in in primarily in populations of people who wear shoes and that if you don't wear shoes you don't get bunions. So that suggests that it's the shoes that people wear that contribute to the formation of bunions. Right. That's not like a one hundred percent Anya (19:26) that contribute to the formation of bunions. That's not like a 100% causal relationship because there's a lot of other things that go into it like lifestyle and ultimately the strength and stability of your feet impact how much you're going to be affected by the shoes that you wear. But it seems clear to me that the shoes that we house our feet in the majority of the time are going to start to mold them. MARGUERITE + KARL (19:32) relationship because there's a lot of other things that go into it like lifestyle and ultimately the strength and stability of your feet impact how much you're gonna be affected by the shoes that you wear. But it seems clear to me that the shoes that we house our feet in the majority of the time are going to start to hold And we see this with like corsets or Anya (19:55) And we see this with like corsets or they in Africa some tribes have those neck. Yeah, the neck rings. Yes, yes. And so intuitively we've seen examples of this and we know that our bodies take the shape of the containers that we put them in. And so if you start putting a child's feet in a MARGUERITE + KARL (20:01) They in Africa some tribes have those neck The neck rings. I was just thinking it's kinda like body modification in a way. And so intuitively we've seen it We know that our bodies take the shape of a container. So if you start feet and a Anya (20:25) rigid pointy shoe when they start going to school and they wear that for eight hours a day, every day for thirty years. Then by the time they're thirty five, makes sense to me that there would be a bunion. MARGUERITE + KARL (20:25) rigid shoe when they start going to school and they wear that for eight hours a day, every day, for thirty years, then by the a pioneer. Right. It I like how you say it makes intuitive sense 'cause that's like the best I think that's the best way to say it. It really does, especially with a kid who's You're b you're born with a body that is meant for this life. It's perfect in every way. And to put it in a container, like you say, that's just gonna change things and change things negatively is just it doesn't make sense. Anya (21:01) The shape of a bunion foot is a mirror of a tapered shoe. I mean th it's the same shape. And so that also is pretty damning in my opinion. That the the bunion foot is shaped like a modern conventional shoe. MARGUERITE + KARL (21:10) So also is pretty damn Yeah, wow. How long and when you start to transition into barefoot style shoes, like how long before you see some sort of results, like you start to feel better, a little more comfortable and a little stronger? Anya (21:31) You know, it really depends on the person and where they're starting from and what they might be doing elsewhere in their life to support their transition or strengthening their feet. But simply just walking around in minimal issues for six weeks has been shown to increase the muscle size in the feet. So very passively you're getting strengthening happening simply by doing your normal life. MARGUERITE + KARL (21:46) six weeks has been shown to increase the muscle size in the feet. great. Yeah. Very passively you're getting lengthening happening simply by doing your normal Anya (22:00) In minimal issues. MARGUERITE + KARL (22:01) In minimal issues. Okay. And so bunions, planter, I always say this wrong, fascitis. Casciitis. and also even like back pain posture, those could be some signs that maybe somebody may want to take a look at barefoot shoes and see if it could be an option for them or transition into them. any kind of Anya (22:18) Yeah, any kind of toe pain, metatarsalgia, ball of the foot pain, hammer toes, bunions. Plantar fascia is a little tricky. I mean sorry, plantar fasciitis. because sometimes people who transition to barefoot shoes too fast can actually get this flared up because of going from a heel shoe to a zero drop shoe that can lay that lengthens the tissues. MARGUERITE + KARL (22:27) Plantar fash is a little tricky. I mean sorry, plantar because sometimes who transition to barefoot shoes too fast can actually get this flared up because of going from a heel shoe to a zero drop shoe. That can like and that lengthens the tissues, Anya (22:45) And so that can cause a little bit of strain. So if you're used to wearing a lot of heels or you run on MARGUERITE + KARL (22:45) and so that can cause a little bit of strain. So if you're used to wearing a lot of heels or running. Anya (22:52) walk a lot in a heeled shoe, I would just be mindful about gradually going down and making sure you're stretching your calves and your hamstrings and taking breaks as needed. low back pain is a good one to bring up because heels. MARGUERITE + KARL (22:53) Heel shoe, I would just be mindful about gradually going down and making sure you're stretching your calves and your taking breaks as needed. low back pain is a good one to bring up because heels on shoes can exacerbate that. And I Anya (23:11) on shoes can exacerbate that and I I have definitely noticed myself that heels hurt my back and they did before and so that's one of the things that is a lot I'm a lot more comfortable. And I n have a few family members that have had back issues and that was when afterwards they were like, ⁓ anytime I wear even a small heel and I'm on my feet all day, my low back then they MARGUERITE + KARL (23:17) I have definitely noticed myself that heels hurt my back and they did before. that's one of the things that is a lot I'm a lot more comfortable. And I have a few family members that have had back issues. And that afterwards they were like, anytime I wear even a small heel and I'm on my feet all day, my low back. So then they've been trying zero droptions and that's been helping them. Anya (23:38) been trying zero drop shoes and that's been helping them. MARGUERITE + KARL (23:42) That's great. Gosh, I would not even want to know what that did to Carrie Bradshaw's feet. Who invented heels? Anya (23:46) Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (23:50) a lot of people that are probably listening, probably nodding along, but they're probably like, Okay, I don't want to start wearing weird looking shoes, like wide looking shoes. how did you kind of get past that in the Anya (24:02) Well, I didn't really have a choice. It was like, do I walk or do you know or do I wear the clown shoes? Yeah. So I mean, I I was like past the point of I was in survival MARGUERITE + KARL (24:07) Yeah. Yeah. That's the logical way to look at it. Anya (24:17) but I'm gonna be honest with you, I did not like the look of my ultra sneakers at first. And I'm not really an athletic sneak sneaker type of person, anyways. So I do understand. MARGUERITE + KARL (24:29) So I do understand Anya (24:31) that there is a cultural MARGUERITE + KARL (24:31) that there is a Anya (24:32) component of what we consider to be attractive that is can be a hurdle for people. I say find something that you like. And typically casual sneakers are the most normal looking. So normal quote unquote. The Y toe box casual sneakers look the closest to a typical sneaker. So that is a good place for a lot of people to start. It's also a nice MARGUERITE + KARL (24:36) Be attractive that is can be a hurdle for people. Yeah I say find something that you like, and typically casual sneakers are the most normal looking, so normal quote unquote. The white toe box casual sneakers look the closest to a typical sneaker. So that is a good place for a lot of people to start. It's also a nice ⁓ comfort shoe for walking and a good Anya (25:01) ⁓ comfort shoe for walking and a a good or just a good way to try it out. And there's some brands on Amazon and some more affordable brands that are about forty dollars and they look just kind of like normal retro kicks or, you know, everyday sneakers. Pretty unobjectionable. They're they're pretty mainstream looking while still giving you those benefits. And I think that's a really good place to start. MARGUERITE + KARL (25:04) But just a good way to try it out. And there's some brands on Amazon, some more affordable brands that are about $40, and they look just kind of like normal retro kicks or you know everyday sneakers. Pretty unobjectionable. They're they're pretty mainstream looking while still giving you those And I think that's a really good place to start. Pick just one style of shoe. Anya (25:29) Pick just one style of shoe to try, to swap it out, something that you'll actually wear, and then just go from there. MARGUERITE + KARL (25:33) Try to swap it out, something that you'll actually wear, and then just go from there. That's that's a good challenge. Just swap one of your shoes, yeah, get started. Taya, like when we're out and about, I'll see a minimalist shoes. I'm like, hey, that's a that's a nice shoe there. Like, I notice it, and they're they're looking a lot better these days. I think so. The styles are really cool. Yeah. The other thing, too, that and this might be kind of weird, is you know, if we're out and about and people don't have shoes on, maybe we're at the pool or something, I'll might look over and be like Anya (25:50) Mm-hmm. yeah, there's so many more options. MARGUERITE + KARL (26:00) That person's got a nice toe box over there. You know, like I'm impressed. I'm like, yeah, that's the way to go. I love you. I'm trying. Yeah. That's so funny. Anya (26:03) Ha ha Yep, I go through my life now looking at people's feet. MARGUERITE + KARL (26:14) so would you say that probably the biggest mistake that people would make switching is probably just switching all at once a little bit too fast instead of figuring out like what works specifically for them? Yes. I say that this the Anya (26:23) Yes, I would say that the speed is usually the downfall is getting a little over excited. And it's hard not to because especially if you're in pain and you discover that there are shoes that don't squish your toes. I mean, it makes total sense. Cause I I yeah, I've been there. but you can take MARGUERITE + KARL (26:43) You can take, Anya (26:46) Do what I did, which is take an orthotic or a supportive insult that you like that you know works for you and just bring it over into your your new minimal issues and so you can add it in, you can take it out, you know, you can kind of experiment with it, ⁓ too. So yeah, definitely just pacing yourself, I think is important. MARGUERITE + KARL (26:46) do what I did, which is take an orthotic or supportive insul that you like, that you know works for you, and just bring it over into your your new minimal issues. you can add it in, you can take it out, and you can kind of experiment with it too. So yeah, definitely just pacing yourself, I think is Okay. So you mentioned that there's not really like an age, it's just the sooner the better when you realize it for kids. Like for someone who's maybe a new mom. Does there a transition period for kids like if maybe they're like six or seven or eight? Okay. Okay. I mean if they if they're Anya (27:15) Typically no. I mean if they've if they're in school, school is hard because you have to wear shoes all day and you're also spending a lot of time sitting. And that the combination of those things is hard on the feet. So it's possible, especially if there's maybe some pre existing musculoskeletal things. but at that age, kids are still very flexible in their joints. MARGUERITE + KARL (27:22) all day and you're also spending a lot of time sitting. Yeah. And that the combination of those things is hard on the feet. So it's Especially if there's maybe some pre existing musculoskeletal ⁓ but at that age, kids are still very flexible in their joints, Anya (27:42) typically more lax in their joints, they're not likely to be s rigid, to be stiff in their feet at all. And they should be pretty comfortable in minimal shoes right away. But of course listen to your child, you know, y MARGUERITE + KARL (27:42) typically more lax in their joints. They're not likely to be s rigid, to be stiff right in their feet And they should be pretty comfortable in minimal shoes right away. But of course listen to your child, you know Anya (27:56) always if they're if they're expressing discomfort. But I would be surprised if a child that young without an other pre-existing condition MARGUERITE + KARL (27:57) always they're if they're expressing discomfort. But I would be surprised if a child that young without an other pre existing condition Anya (28:09) would be uncomfortable on barefoot shoes. I think it would be the opposite. MARGUERITE + KARL (28:09) would be uncomfortable and your cushions. Yeah. I think like their bones are softer too, so that probably helps too. I know with like oral health at at least. And I love seeing how our s our both of our kids, but especially our sons, maybe 'cause he's a little older, his little cute feet are like they look like it's like from an ancient textbook. They're so wide and I just love it. I do too. like when he climbs a tree or something, you can see it and like how you can use your toes. Yeah, just like that. It just makes a lot of sense. Yeah. For for a kid too, is there any so if you switch them to the minimalist shoes, more barefoot, you're not going with the conventional shoe. Is there any Anya (28:33) Ha ha ha. Yeah. Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (28:51) Downside to that? Like is there any benefit to the conventional shoe that would be lost? Anya (28:57) Sometimes in sports specific context, so like a soccer shoe, ⁓ you know, yeah, a football cleat, you wanna have some contouring to be able for ball handling and some, you know, lightness on your feet. So there's very specific context like MARGUERITE + KARL (29:04) Ecleats. Anya (29:18) if yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (29:17) more like a it's like an equipment for your whatever activity you're doing. No, that's good though. I wouldn't I wouldn't expect there to be like a downside or yeah, downside to switching because it's just so much better for you. Anya (29:30) Yeah, for kids, I mean there's very little you typically unless they're older children and then there might be some transition time. But yeah, typically it's pretty easy and and just all mostly benefits without drawbacks. MARGUERITE + KARL (29:45) I noticed too, there's kind of like it seems to be coming a little bit more of a norm with kids at least. There's a pretty good selection of kids' shoes I find that are barefoot. I even found like some rain boots on Amazon, which was cool. But for the adults, so you've kind of built a whole shop around this in all of your reviews, which are really helpful. So how did you actually like vet and test the brands? Like did you just kind of go on what your own experience was or did you just kind of like, hey, let me try this one for a few months. How did that all work? Anya (30:15) So I started reviewing shoes formally in twenty eighteen and writing them up on my blog and on my social media. MARGUERITE + KARL (30:16) We started formally in twenty eighteen. Anya (30:23) And then it was two years later that I started the shop with my husband. We co-founded Anya Shop in twenty twenty. And so I had been testing shoes at a pretty MARGUERITE + KARL (30:23) and then it was two years later that I started the shop with my husband. We co-founded Anya Shop in 2020. so I had been testing shoes at a pretty good pace for the past two years. So I had a an idea of what was needed in the US and it was very much just trying to offer something that wasn't available. Anya (30:36) good pace for the past two years. a an idea of what was needed in the US. And it was very much just trying to offer something that wasn't available rather than competing with other barefoot shoe brands that are already here. And that's an unusual position to be in, but I've loved that throughout my MARGUERITE + KARL (30:51) competing with other barefoot shoe brands that are already here. And that's an unusual position to be in. But I've ⁓ throughout my time in this space is that I'm kind of on all sides of it, so I still we spell barefoot shoes in our store, but I'm promoting all of them on my blog, so I have this kind of like cross-section of being. Anya (31:00) time in this space is that I'm kind of on all sides of it. So I still we sell barefoot shoes in our store, but I promote all of them on my blog. So I have this kind of like cross section of being friendly with MARGUERITE + KARL (31:13) friendly with everybody and just wanting to support everybody. Yeah. Even though I do have my own store. ⁓ there's so many US brands that are doing amazing things. and we try to bring in complementary options that can Anya (31:13) everybody and just wanting to support everybody, even though I do have my own store. And there's so many US brands that are doing amazing things. and we try to bring in complementary options that can add MARGUERITE + KARL (31:29) add to what's available in a meaningful way. S just so that more of our needs are being met without having to spend Anya (31:30) To what's available in a meaningful way, just so that more of our needs are being met without having to spend a whole MARGUERITE + KARL (31:40) a whole bunch on shipping and you know lots of complications with returns and all of that from overseas. So essentially I've been I t I'm testing shoes all the time and it was that work that had helped me Anya (31:40) bunch on shipping and you know, lots of complications with returns and all of that from overseas. So essentially I've been I t I'm testing shoes all the time. And it was that work that has helped me know. MARGUERITE + KARL (31:57) know what would be good products to sell and I'm really I'm really neurotic about it actually. I refuse to sell anything in my shop unless I pre-worn it. Anya (31:57) what would be good products to sell and I'm really I'm really neurotic about it actually. I refuse to sell anything in my shop unless I've personally worn it because we we're so we're we're not just selling products. I mean these have to meet our criteria of being good for feet and also being a good fit for as many feet as possible. So I kind of have a MARGUERITE + KARL (32:09) because we we're so we're we're not just selling I mean these have to meet our criteria of being good and also being a good fit for as many feet as possible. Yeah. Yeah. So I kinda have a glance now after doing this for six years, doing this shop for your vlog for eight years, what tends to work? Anya (32:26) sense now after doing this for six years, doing this shop for blog for eight years, what tends to work well and what are the things to look out for? And yes, I'm very particular about what we MARGUERITE + KARL (32:37) What are the things to look out for? And yeah, so I'm very about what we sell. it doesn't get much better than that, someone who you don't have to create the product, you lived in the product. So that's even better. I love that. Yeah. Whi which style would be your top seller? It's Anya (32:48) Mm-hmm. it's seasonal, so it kind of depends on on when you ask. ⁓ but we have a few that tend to be bestsellers year over year. So there's the Schlepen Orchid and the Shapen Poppy, which are two women's flats that are good high heel replacements. They're really elegant. ⁓ we have labus sandals, which are a strappy sandal that is a bestseller like literally year after year. MARGUERITE + KARL (33:02) Schlepen Orchid and the Schleppen poppy, which are two women's flats that are good high heel replacements. They're really elegant. we have Labus sandals, which are a strappy sandal that is a bestseller like literally year after year. Dahlia loafers with like a classic business loafer but with a white toe box. And then we have some classic black lace of boots from Pureco that are so those five. Anya (33:19) Dahlia loafer. So it's like a classic business loafer but with a white toe box. some classic black lace up boots from Pyrco that are so those those five literally every year are in the top five bestsellers. Just because yeah. If you have those five, you almost don't need any other shoes. MARGUERITE + KARL (33:31) Literally every year are in the top five best sellers. Yeah. Sounds like those would cover sorry, go ahead. Right. That's what I was just thinking. I guess got all the events and all the situations throughout your day covered there. But you mentioned in the US, so is the shoe market, the styles, different around the world and 'cause I've never really thought about that, I guess. You know, I different cultures have different styles, but you know, is it was your comment more towards the styles and availability elsewhere or just manufacturing? Anya (34:04) So it would be the styles that are available elsewhere that in the US for a long time it was primarily the brands were primarily doing athletic and more men's focused casual styles. LEMS, Zero, Ultra, great brands, but not ones that filled my closet with you know, like what I wanted to wear to work or to date night or, you know, stuff like that. And Europe has done a really good job for a long time with manufacturing those more dressy lifestyle shoes or more style MARGUERITE + KARL (34:45) lifestyle shoes or more style Anya (34:49) Not just for women, for men too. Like men's dress shoes are MARGUERITE + KARL (34:48) just for women, for men too. Like men's Anya (34:53) really difficult to get in the US. There there's there's more options now. But for a while there was nothing. MARGUERITE + KARL (34:54) US. There there's there's more options But for a while there was nothing. Yeah, I hate wearing dress shoes. They're so uncomfortable. So for for men, yeah. Anya (35:00) Yeah. We always carry a few men's dress shoes for that reason, just because we we don't do a whole lot of men's products, but we have a few sneakers and a few men's dress shoes just because we felt like, gosh, these are so needed in the US. MARGUERITE + KARL (35:08) We don't do Shoes, sneakers, and a few men's dress shoes just because we felt like goshes are so needed in the US. Yeah. That makes sense too, and you have a nice male perspective from your husband too, so that's awesome. Right. Anya (35:22) Yeah. Getting him to test shoes is a bit bit of a challenge. I'm like he likes to wear his favorite shoes all the time. You know, that's the way my kids are too. Just one pair of shoes every day. I'm like, Can you just can I just put just put these ones on? Then tell me how you like at the end of the day. I have to like MARGUERITE + KARL (35:27) He likes to wear his favorite shoes all the time. Yeah. Yep. Just one every day. That's how I am. Just put just put these ones on and tell me how you like them at the end of the day. Yeah. I've I've switched to the the minimalist shoe, but I I'll wear a pair of shoes until they actually just fall off my feet. And then I'm still reluctant to get a new pair. Anya (35:49) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (35:50) I wanted to ask you, what about socks? Do socks have any effect on your feet development? Foot development. Anya (35:57) They can. They they are pressure. They apply it, they apply pressure on on your feet. So it's the same, it it's not as strong of a force as a shoe, but it's still a force. So especially if you're wearing tight, too small socks or and your foot's growing, you're a child, then that can definitely impact your foot development and your comfort levels. And I am really particular about my socks too. And it was kind of funny. I did not MARGUERITE + KARL (36:05) Yeah. So especially child then that can definitely impact your foot development and your comfort levels and really particular about my socks too and it was kind of funny I did not realize it was happening but I was wearing I started wearing barefoot shoes I didn't even think about my socks but I just s kind of stopped wearing socks because I they were annoying me so much and so then I'm wearing my shoes barefoot all the time which is fine to do Anya (36:24) realize it was happening. But I was wearing I started wearing barefoot shoes. I didn't even think about my socks. But I just s kind of stopped wearing socks because I put they were annoying me so much. And so then I'm wearing my shoes barefoot all the time, which is fine to do. But sometimes MARGUERITE + KARL (36:43) But sometimes it's uncomfortable, like, you know, maybe your feet sweat or or you make your shoes dirty and it's harder to clean Anya (36:43) it's uncomfortable, like, you know, maybe your feet sweat or or you make your shoes dirty and then it's harder to clean them and MARGUERITE + KARL (36:51) ⁓ and and finally I tried toe socks and I was like it's not that I don't like socks. It's that I don't like normal socks. Anya (36:52) And finally I tried toe socks and I was like, it's not that I don't like socks. It's that I don't like normal socks that are too And so now I'm like 100% toe socks. They have anatomically shaped socks, just like they have anatomically shaped shoes that have a big toe pocket. I still can't wear those because they kind of it's like when you put your foot in the shoe, it like MARGUERITE + KARL (37:05) They have anatomically shaped socks, just like they have anatomically shaped that have a big toe pocket. I still can't wear those because they kind of it's like when you your foot in the shoe, it like pulls it back. Mm-hmm. No, and I don't want anything pulling on my toes. Yeah. So I'm a hundred percent toe sock person. My thirteen year old is the same. We both wear toe socks only. Anya (37:20) pulls it back, you know, and it I don't want anything pulling on my toes. So I am a hundred percent toe sock person. My 13-year-old is the same. We both wear toe socks only. And then my husband and my younger MARGUERITE + KARL (37:35) And then my husband and my Anya (37:38) refuse to wear toe socks. They can't stand it. And they wear monochromically whiter socks. MARGUERITE + KARL (37:38) refuse to wear choice on people. They can't stand it. And they wear paint onically whiter. It's just kinda like what we mentioned before, it's just all about preference. everyone's different. Yeah. Right. Anya (37:50) Yeah. A I'm all for barefoot as much as possible, but when your shoes stink to high heaven and I can't get the smell out and it's sticking up the whole entry room, I need you to wear socks. Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (37:52) barefoot as much as possible. But when your shoes stink to high heaven and I can't get the smell out and it's sticking up the whole entry room, I need you doors oxygen. Yes. We're there with our kids. Yeah. They actually think it's funny in the car, like we're coming home from the park or something, they like to flip their shoes off and hold their feet up and just, Daddy smell my feet. Mommy smell my feet. Like, you guys are gross. But you have a nice toe box. Anya (38:22) Yeah. MARGUERITE + KARL (38:24) you guys started the first barefoot shoe expo. So how did that come into play? Cause I think that's awesome. It's just kind of normalizing it more and more and opening up the market for more, which I think's great. How did you guys decide to do that? Anya (38:26) Yes, we did. So this was really a brainchild of I don't know exactly, I don't know which one of us it was that came up with the idea first. But so Justin, my husband, co-founded Anya Shop with me. And then my assistant Samantha has been with me since 2020 as well. she's mostly works on the blog side and the expo. She doesn't work on the shop. But so MARGUERITE + KARL (38:51) Samantha has been with me since twenty twenty as well. ⁓ she mostly works on the blog side and the expo. She doesn't ⁓ on But so Samantha and Justin and I have worked as a team on events for a long, long time. And we I love them. We just get along really well and Anya (39:01) Samantha and Justin and I have worked as a team on events for a long, long time. And we I love them. We just get along really well and they're so instrumental and pivotal to where we've gone as a company, but they're always behind the scenes. So I just you have to know how important they are to everything that we've done. So the three of us, it was mostly them, because I'm always like, I don't want to do more things. And they're like, this is would be such a great idea. MARGUERITE + KARL (39:11) so instrumental and pivotal to where we've gone as a company, but they're always behind the scenes. you have to know how important they are to everything that So the three of us, it was mostly them, because I'm always like, I don't want to do more things. Like this is would be such a great idea host an event, bring a bunch of shoes, like do a traveling pop-up show. They had all these great ideas. Anya (39:29) To host an event, bring a bunch of shoes, like do a traveling pop-up show. They had all these great ideas. We decided to try it first as a warehouse event at our shop warehouse when we first got one. So for a few years, we were in our garage, then we were out of a storage unit, and then eventually we moved into our own warehouse. MARGUERITE + KARL (39:37) We decided to try it first as a warehouse When we first got one. So for a few years we're in our garage, then we were out of a storage unit, and then eventually we moved into our own warehouse. Anya (39:54) When we moved into our own warehouse, we opened up the door and we had a in-person MARGUERITE + KARL (39:55) When we moved into our own warehouse, we opened up the door and we had a Anya (40:00) event. But we wanted to open it up to other brands. So we called it a barefoot shoe try-on event. And we contacted other brands and asked if they wanted to participate by sending samples for people to try on, like in a full-size rung. And then we put QR codes if they wanted to. MARGUERITE + KARL (40:00) But we wanted to open it up to other brands. So we called it a barefish we try-on event. And we contacted other brands and asked if they wanted to sending samples for people to try-on, like in a full-size run. And then we put QR codes if they wanted to shop and discount codes if they were applicable. And we had about a hundred, maybe 125 people come, which was very cramped in our small warehouse at the time. And that was in Anya (40:21) shop and discount codes if they were applicable. And we had about a hundred, maybe 125 people come, which was very cramped in our small warehouse at the time. And that was in 2022. MARGUERITE + KARL (40:38) That was our very first event. And then Anya (40:37) So that was our very first event. And MARGUERITE + KARL (40:42) We that this was back when we still thought it would be great to do a traveling show. Still a great Anya (40:42) that this was back when we still thought it would be great to do a traveling show. Still a great idea. MARGUERITE + KARL (40:48) idea, but logistically too much for Anya (40:48) But logistically too much for us. MARGUERITE + KARL (40:51) But we asked everybody where they wanted us to go next and they voted for Minneapolis. So we did the same kind of event in 2023, called it the Barefoot Should Try On event. This time some brands wanted to come in person. So we had a handful of people come and ⁓ staff their own table and interact with people. And then the others Anya (40:51) asked everybody where they wanted us to go next, and they voted for Minneapolis. So we did the same kind of event in 2023, called it the Barefoot Shoe Try-in event. This time some brands wanted to come in person. So we had a handful of people come and staff their own table and interact with people. And then the others we MARGUERITE + KARL (41:16) we finished for them, we just put samples out and so it's still kind of Anya (41:17) for them, we just put samples out and so it's still kind of MARGUERITE + KARL (41:20) casual. Anya (41:20) you know, try MARGUERITE + KARL (41:21) Yeah, try on event. It wasn't a both medicine. We had eight hundred people come. wow. Yeah. And we had to stop the advertising. Like we talked about it for a few weeks and then we're like Anya (41:21) on event. It wasn't a full convention, a full. We had eight hundred people come in a convention center. Yeah. And we had to stop l advertising. Like we talked about it for a few weeks and then we're like, we can't have more people come. Like they're not gonna fit. So we took it down and we didn't talk about it for the last month and MARGUERITE + KARL (41:40) Yes, yes. Anya (41:46) then after that we let people vote again and we decided let's make this a convention. MARGUERITE + KARL (41:48) We let people vote again and we decided let's make this a Anya (41:53) Let's make every brand able to sell their shoes and staff their own booth. We'll have like formal vendors, booths, layout on a map, tickets, and we did that in Chicago the next year. And we had MARGUERITE + KARL (41:54) Let's make every able to sell their and staff their own booth. We'll have like formal vendors, layout on a map, tickets, and we did that in Chicago the next year, and we had Anya (42:10) about 1800 people come. MARGUERITE + KARL (42:11) about eighteen hundred people. Anya (42:12) And it was again, it was the same kind of thing where we were absolutely at capacity. Like it was very, very crap. And then after that, we realized that we probably had to find a home for it and that it was logistically too much to have it be a convention and have it move every year. MARGUERITE + KARL (42:14) It's awesome. It was again it was the same kind of thing where we were It was very, very And then after that we realized that we probably had to find a home for it and that it was logistically too much to have it be a convention and have it move every year. Yeah. So we went to Denver the next year as a trial and we didn't love that, so we came back to Chicago and we're we're gonna stick Chicago. Anya (42:36) So we went to Denver the next year as a trial and we didn't love that. So we came back to Chicago and we're we're gonna stick in Chicago. So the very first year that it was officially called the Barefoot Shoe Expo was 2024. So we've had five events, but the first two were try-on events and the last three were exposed and it's been crazy to see in the past five years since then how many events have been popping up around the world. MARGUERITE + KARL (42:45) So the very first year that it was officially called the Barefoot Shoe Expo was twenty twenty four. So we've had five events, but the first two were trying events and the last three were expos. And it's been crazy to see in the past five years since then. how many events have been popping up around the world. And that is really cool to see that there's just this desire for community and for touching and handling issues in person and these experiences. And so many of the people who come are yet lentists, lots of people who are very confident about it. Anya (43:05) And that is really cool to see that there's just this desire for community and also for touching and handling issues in person, having these experiences. And so many of the people who come are yet enthusiasts, lots of people who are very passionate about it, but so many people who are completely brand new and they just don't want to order online. They just want to experience it, just want to know what it's all about. MARGUERITE + KARL (43:26) But so many people who are completely brand new. They just don't want to order online. They just want to experience it, just want to know what it's all about. Anya (43:35) And I love that. I love seeing these people come in in whatever shoes. Who cares? Like we don't care what shoes you're wearing. They're here to experience it. And that's really what it's all about. It's about making it available to the mainstream and accessible to the public. MARGUERITE + KARL (43:35) And I love that. I love seeing these people come in in whatever shoes. Who cares? Like we don't care what shoes They're here to experience it. And that's really what it's all about. It's available to the mainstream and accessible to the public. I love that. We'll have to go to the next one. Yeah, absolutely when is the next one? So we're just May. Anya (43:57) So we are doing them in May. We haven't officially announced the 2027 dates. It should be around the same time in May in Chicago next year. MARGUERITE + KARL (44:03) It should be around the same. Anya (44:07) the website is barefoot shoe expo.com. MARGUERITE + KARL (44:07) Is that is that Perfect. Is that crowd, is it like a lot of sneakerheads and like shoe people or is it people who wanna move into minimalist shoes for the health benefits? Kind of a I'm sure it's kind of a blend, but Anya (44:22) Yeah, I think it's I mean, if you're into barefoot shoes, it's for the benefits, right? I mean, I d I think that there is a counter movement that is purely fashion. that happened in two thousand four, where Five Fingers were this like counterculture, you know, almost like subversive shoe style on the runway, you know, is odd. And that has come back around again. MARGUERITE + KARL (44:24) if you're into barefoot shoes, it's for the benefits. Yeah. culture. Anya (44:49) So you're seeing it as a fashion statement. That is a smaller subset of people than the people who are here for the benefits. Because trends come and go. But if you're flying out and you're booking a hotel and you're spending two days at a convention and attending workshops and trying and all these shoes, it's because you believe it's making your life better. MARGUERITE + KARL (44:50) You're seeing it as a fashion statement. Good. That is a smaller subset of people than the people who are here for the benefits. Because trends come and But if you're flying out and you're booking a hotel and you're spending two days at a convention and attending workshops and trying on all these shoes, it's because you believe it's making your life Anya (45:17) Not just because MARGUERITE + KARL (45:17) better. Right. Because you Anya (45:18) you like five toe shoes. MARGUERITE + KARL (45:20) like five toe shoes. Right, exactly. W just ⁓ if you just like five toe shoes and you're just gonna go on your website and buy them and call it a day. Anya (45:26) Yeah. Yeah. I mean Five Fingers was at the expo, but there was like forty five or f forty five or more other brands that were not five toe shoes. So you for it to be fun for you, you know, you're probably into it for more reasons. MARGUERITE + KARL (45:39) Yeah. Gotcha. And so from a crunchy standpoint too, what I do is some of the barefoot shoes that I have are not all of them, but a couple well, I only have like three. I think like two out of three are grounding shoes as well. So it's kind of like a double win-win. What do you think about that? about the grounding shoes. Anya (46:01) So I don't know as much about that as I do about all the other aspects of barefoot shoes. I've watched that documentary that was really popular. I can't remember what it's called at the moment. MARGUERITE + KARL (46:12) I Anya (46:12) I watched one of those documentaries and there are definitely grounding shoes that I recommend. Like I love Earthrunners. and there's this MARGUERITE + KARL (46:20) it's Anya (46:21) that I like. I personally haven't noticed a huge difference wearing those versus MARGUERITE + KARL (46:21) that I like. I personally haven't noticed a huge difference wearing Anya (46:27) wearing my other barefoot shoes, but I also tried to walk barefoot as much as possible and not even have shoes on. And I get a lot of benefit from walking barefoot on the grass. MARGUERITE + KARL (46:27) versus wearing my other barefoot but I also try to walk barefoot as much as possible and not even have shoes on. And I get a lot Anya (46:38) So I d I yeah, I'm not entirely sure just because I haven't noticed a huge difference for me and I would rather just take my shoes off. MARGUERITE + KARL (46:38) Yeah. So I d I yeah, I'm not sure just because I haven't noticed a huge difference for me. And I would rather just take my shoes off. Yeah. yeah. That's definitely the first option I would say for sure. Is to just go barefoot when you can. But yeah, that's cool. So I have one of my brands I have is grounds. I have grounds, groundies, and then I have the Vivio. Actually I like four. I have the Vivio barefoot. yeah, I really I I like those a lot. Is like what You always say back to the basics. Right. Back to basics. Get your feet back to how they're meant to be in the old times. I just did it just because I don't want to have any issues with my back or knees or anything when I get older. So that's why I was like, you know what? I think I'm just gonna go down this road. And I think I cannot remember the brand, but I can go look on your website. You had Anya (47:20) Mm-hmm. MARGUERITE + KARL (47:29) on in one of your Instagram posts. They I wanna get them. They're so cute. These sneakers, they look like they're kind of suede. I think they came in they came in three different colors. I loved those. I think they did have stripes on them. I'm gonna post them on Instagram too so I'm not leaving anyone hanging. Anya (47:33) Uh-huh. Stripes, maybe? There's these suede shoes that everybody loves that I also love called the they're the Ela suede. Coel Hila suede. They've got like some there's like a dark green with white stripes and a dark green with pink stripes and a light blue with white like they've got some really cute color combinations. MARGUERITE + KARL (47:52) Ela suede? Coel Ela. It might it might have been that. There's like a dark green with white stripes, dark green with pink stripes, and a light blue with white. Like they've got some really cute color combinations. Anya (48:05) That might be it. I don't know. MARGUERITE + KARL (48:06) It might be it. I like sneakers because I'm always running around is you know, I have two little kids, but you have really cute other styles for formal events too, which I think's awesome. So yeah. Anya (48:17) Yep, lots to choose from. MARGUERITE + KARL (48:19) So where can everyone find you? So I am a few different places. Anya (48:22) So I am a few different places. ⁓ my blog is onyasreviews.com. MARGUERITE + KARL (48:26) Blog is onya's reviews.com Anya (48:28) And my social media handle is Anya's Review. So that's me. That's always like I write every word, you know, it's my own pictures. It's all me. That's my my personal brand, I guess you could say. ⁓ any collaborative shoes that I co-design and all of that, go there. ⁓ my retail store is anya's shop.com or at onya's reviews.shop on social media. So that is our store, and you can see the products that we carry. MARGUERITE + KARL (48:28) and my social media handle is Anya's Reviews. So that's me. That's always like I write every word, you know, it's my own pictures, it's all me. That's my my personal brand, I guess you could say. any collaborative shoes that I co-design and all of that, go there. And my retail store is onya's-shop.com or at onya's reviews.shop on social media. So that is our store, and you can see the products that we carry. Anya (48:56) here in the US. And then our Expo website is barefootshoeexpo.com. So I've got a few different places, but if you want to connect with me, Anya's Reviews is the place to go. And I've got a weekly Barefoot Shoe Digest that I send out with all the news and like what's on sale and ⁓ you know what I'm thinking about. so that's also fun for me to always write and interact with people because I always get replies to MARGUERITE + KARL (48:56) Here in And then our expo website is barefootshoe expo.com. So I've got a few different places, but if you want to connect with me, on your subviews the place to go. And I've got a weekly Barefoot Shoe Digest that I with all the news and like what's on sale and ⁓ you know what I'm ⁓ so that's also fun for me to always write and interact with people I always thank you again so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. It was so enjoyed it. That was great information. Yes. Anya (49:20) Yeah, thank you for having me. It was great. Good, I'm glad. I appreciate you having me.
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Anya discovered barefoot shoes after navigating her own foot pain and what she found completely transformed the way she moves through the world. She launched Anya's Reviews to share what she learned and help others find stylish, functional footwear that actually works with your feet, not against them. Soon after, she and her family launched Anya's Shop to make small barefoot shoe brands more accessible to a wider audience. When her community kept asking where they could try shoes on in person, Anya's team made that happen too, starting with in-person try-on events in 2022 and growing into the Barefoot Shoe Expo, which launched in 2024 and has become the go-to gathering for the barefoot shoe community.
👀 you can find Anya:
+ on the web:
anyasreviews
anyas-shop
barefoot shoe convention
+ on instagram:
@anya’s reviews
@anya’s shop
+ on Facebook /anyasreviews
+ on youtube @anyasreviews
👀 you can find us:
🎥 watch → YouTube
👂 listen → spotify, apple podcasts, amazon music & iheartradio
💌 read → substack (weekly emails & all the extras!)
🤩 follow along with us on our socials!
instagram → @crunchypod
facebook → crunchypod
youtube → @crunchypod
pinterest → /unapologeticallycrunchy
📝 on the web → crunchypod.com
🛍️ shop merch → unapologeticallycrunchy.com
💫 connect with marguerite → @unapologeticallycrunchy + unapologeticallycrunchy.substack.com
💫 connect with karl → uncommonstandpoint.substack.com
💜 peace, love + CRUNCH!