Scaling Sweetness: Making Healthy Desserts Accessible for All with George Ho & Brian McDermott of Frönen

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#19 Scaling Sweetness: Making Healthy Desserts Accessible for All with George Ho & Brian McDermott of Frönen

Today, we have the guys behind the frozen dessert brand, Frönen, on the show.

Fronen is redefining what it means to enjoy dessert. Their mission is to make indulgence not just delicious, but nourishing. By creating clean,  healthier dessert options with minimal, clean ingredients, they’re proving that treating yourself doesn’t have to mean compromising your well-being.

From thoughtful product creation to mindful distribution, Frönen is focused on making their desserts accessible to more people- one scoop at a time. Because when it comes to impact, access is everything…and a good dessert can make anyone’s day a little brighter.

In this episode, we’re diving into how Fronen is changing the dessert landscape, the power of local partnerships, and what it really takes to build a food company that makes a difference.

Please welcome the power duo behind Frönen, George Ho & Brian McDermott!

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Show notes available 11/11/2025

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Transcript

Download 0:05 Welcome back to Unapologetically Crunchy. We have a really fun episode for you guys. Today we have the guys behind the frozen dessert brand Fronen. On the show, Fronen is redefining what it means to enjoy dessert. Their mission is to make indulgence not only just delicious, but also nourishing. 0:21 By creating clean, healthier dessert options with a minimal ingredients, they're proving that trading yourself doesn't have to mean compromising your well-being. From thoughtful product creation to mindful distribution, Fernan is focused on making their desserts accessible to more people 1 scoop at a time. Because when it comes to impact, access is everything and a good dessert can make anyone stay a little brighter. 0:42 Am I right or am I right? This is a really fun episode guys, and Carl was really excited for this because if you guys have been listening to us for a long time, you know that Carl has a severe allergy to gluten. He has celiac disease, so he could not have any gluten. 0:58 And these frozen desserts by Fronin do not have any gluten. They're also dairy free. But one thing that Carl really liked about it is they are not positioning themselves is allergen friendly. They are trying to just make desserts normal for everybody instead of kind of putting people who have particular allergies or preferences to dairy or gluten, not putting them in a box. 1:18 So it's just kind of normalizing it for everyone. And we really liked that about this brand. In this episode, we're diving into how Fronin is changing the dessert landscape, the power of local partnerships, and what it takes to build a food company that makes a difference. I do want to mention one thing too. We're having a little bit of quality issues. There's three different locations of recording, so there's a little bit of noise in the background here and there. 1:37 So please just excuse us in this episode. So please welcome the duo behind Fronin, George Ho and Brian McDermott. Welcome to the show, guys. So let's get started by learning a little bit about Fronin, how it started, how you guys got involved, and just the whole origin story. 1:58 Yeah, so I'll kick us off, Brian, but jump in anytime. Fronen started in 2018. Our founders, Eric and Jesse, who are still involved in the company, but they created Fronen from for two reasons. One, they absolutely love ice cream. And I mean, again, beyond kind of the internal ha ha trope kind of way, they really love it. 2:19 I mean, eat multiple pints per day type of people. But they were eating a lot of ice creams in the, you know, they're buying in the store and they noticed that, you know, they weren't feeling as as, as good maybe. I don't know if anyone feels that great after eating 20 pints of ice cream. But that being said, you know, Jesse has some food intolerance issues, some other health issues. 2:38 And ultimately, they started making their own ice cream for themselves. And then that grew to be making it for their friends out of their dorm room. And then eventually that grew to a business that was started out of the University of Chicago and kind of grew into the Midwest. A flash forward to a few years later, you know, Fronen is making delicious frozen desserts and, you know, hundreds of stores across the country, mostly centered in the Midwest. 3:02 And, you know, I, I was a small investor in Fronen. That's how I got to be involved and, and eventually that led, you know, to Eric and Jesse looking for a way to transition out of the business. They wanted to pursue other things. And I just love the brand. 3:18 I love the mission of, you know, creating healthier desserts for folks. And you know, Brian and has been a friend of mine for 20 years. And we just decided, hey, let's give this a try and try to, you know, keep this company moving forward. And it's been an incredible journey about the last two years and one with lots of success, lots of growth and excited to talk to you about it today. 3:37 But Ryan, what did I miss? I think the question was tell us about Fronen and I may have gone off on a tangent. Yeah. Well, I, I think just kind of, you know, I know we, we talked earlier about just the emphasis on ingredients. And when they were eating so many, you know, so much ice cream and checking out so many different brands and flavors, they kept kind of seeing the same ingredient panels popping up where there was a lot of questionable ingredients that they didn't know exactly what it was. 4:04 There wasn't a clear use case for what that was or why it was included and if it was natural or not. And so they thought that products and desserts should be better and ice cream specifically. And so they saw to create a really natural kind of unprocessed type of ice cream that really takes just pure ingredients, doesn't fill it up with a bunch of stuff that's meant to kind of trick you into believing that it should taste a certain way or mask a certain taste. 4:32 It's, you know, it's you're getting a pint of let's say mango. Our mango product, for instance, is only three ingredients. It's coconut cream, it's mango puree and it's honey. There's nothing else that's trying to add additional flavor or kind of trick the mind that they're picking that it's going to have a different type of consistency or a different flavor or anything like that. 4:53 So it's a very natural approach to to desserts. And I think that that's something that they recognized a long time ago before ingredients became so important to consumers and ingredients and and label reading in particular. And so I think that that's something that really set thrown in the part when they initially launched it, but especially now that it's become much more mainstream. 5:14 I think that kind of what George alluded to, especially over the past two years, there's been so much attention paid to supply chain and ingredient quality and really product quality as a result. And so that's really helped us, I think grow and kind of bridge that education gap. 5:32 I think that some brands might have to, you know, fight because when you look at our pint versus most others on shelves, there's a huge gap in terms of both ingredient quantity, but also what those ingredients actually are. Right, right. Yeah, I was going to say, I, I, I love it, right. And I think that that approach should be across all foods. 5:49 So I'm really excited about what you guys are doing there. For myself personally, it's really important to me. About a year and a half, two years ago, I found out I had celiac disease. So, you know, I had been eating whatever for so long, I was feeling terrible. And through some deep dive blood work was actually able to find out that that was the case. 6:08 It was celiac. And from there, you know, I started doing some more label reading on the foods, looking at where they were manufactured and all that. And it's, it's so difficult when there's a, a laundry list of ingredients that you just can't even understand. And I grew to not really trust a lot of the products that are out there. 6:25 Even if it said it was gluten free, I wouldn't feel great. So I love what you guys are doing, you know, going back to the simple 3-4 ingredients. Honestly, about two or three nights ago I crushed a whole pint of the salted caramel and it was awesome. My favorite putting were too. Carl, you have an excellent taste, man. 6:41 Yeah, it was beautiful, man. I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. And I felt great afterwards too. Yeah, no, I. I think that that's also kind of like one of the defining traits, right? Like it, even though it's not a diet ice cream or light by any means, it's something that doesn't leave you feeling heavy and bloated or anything like that. 7:00 But I think it's sometimes common with a lot of ice cream. I mean, there's a huge portion of the US that has it's lactose malabsorption and basically it's not like, you know, you don't get sick necessarily, but just the body has a harder time processing lactose and dairy. And so that's something I think that also, you know, helps on the non dairy front. 7:20 But you know, going back to what you said and having celiacs, I have a family member with that as well. And so I know exactly, you know, the trouble that they have to go through to be able to find the right restaurants and foods and having to really search really diligently and, and stay on top of every single product that you're buying. 7:40 And as much as we're gluten free, we also are one of the only brands, if not the only, I, I need a couch that when I say it, but that actually is OK with really strict autoimmune disease diets like AIP and SCD. 7:57 And for many people and for those who follow those diseases, we're the only ice cream or frozen dessert option available to them. And so I think that that also adds a whole other reason for people to be able to go down an aisle that they would otherwise be skipping and find our product because we're that option that they know that they can trust and that we really design our Pines around. 8:19 When we get when we get those messages from customers, it's like the most amazing thing, right? They, they've, they've been ignored. A lot of people, they, they look at the, their Carl, they're like you, they're going to the store, they're paying attention and they're saying, wait a second, That's on my no list. What can I actually get here? And they give up. And a lot of people have given up on going to the grocery store and getting frozen desserts in a pint or, you know, in other forms. 8:41 And I think that's just something feels just really wrong about that to me, right? I mean, there's so much bountiful choice here. You know, people deserve, they work hard, you know, they got challenging lives. They deserve to go into the store and feel like they're seen that there are options for them that manufacturers consider their needs. 8:59 But on top of that, I think call what you said is really profound, right? That at the end of the day, what I think all brands like us are aspiring to do or should aspire to do is to rebuild trust with consumers. And I think we want to be at the forefront of that. 9:15 We want to be completely transparent about what goes into our our products, our process and give consumers, you know, the best educated choices they can make for themselves, for their families, for their kids. And I think that's going to take a lot of work, Carl, the way you said it, you have a healthy, even if somebody slaps a label on there, you're still skeptical. 9:34 And I think that's because brands have a lot of work to do to be more transparent and earn that trust back. And I and I think that's, you know, where our heads are every day we wake up, we think, what can we do to create better products, higher quality ingredients, be more transparent and let people know what they're getting and what they should expect from the products that they buy in the store. 9:53 Yeah, I love it. It's, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, it, I won't go too far into it, but it it can be so defeating when you're out there just trying to have a meal or grab a snack or something. And to be able to know that I can trust this product. I can understand what the ingredient names are, you know, and that it's safe. It's just so important. 10:08 And it just, it relieves so much pressure, like such a burden of just trying to get by during the day. And it's delicious on top of everything. It is good. And side note, I I had to do AIP for like 4 months last year so I really wish that I knew about this because I really would have appreciated some ice cream. 10:27 I'm sorry that we poke. I know. I'm sorry that we weren't able to reach you before then too, because like that would have been. It's it that that's, we get those types of messages too. And that's like, you know, part of it also is that yes, we're helping. 10:42 I I think it's so meaningful to let people feel seen and that we're actually creating a product that they can even enjoy. But also now that we're just creating something that is less than, it's not that they have to compromise because it's AIP or SCD friendly or gluten free. 10:58 And so it tastes less than a, a, a, another product that is more mainstream or something or, or anything like that. Like, our goal is to really make a product that can be enjoyed by everyone and isn't a sacrifice that has that full taste, that full flavor, and doesn't stimp on ingredient quality or formulation, just as a way of trying to fill a certain niche. 11:20 Yeah, dessert's got to be delicious. And that's hence the name Fonen, which maybe is helpful for folks who don't want to look that up, who are listening to your podcast, which is the German word to indulge. It's inspired by. Yeah, it's inspired by our founders grandmother's recipes that were kind of part of the original founding of the company. 11:37 But you know, at the heart of of everything we do is, is again, you know, yes, it's clean, yes, it's transparent. It's, you know, great ingredients, but it's got to be indulgent. It's got to be delicious. There's, you know, that's what keeps people coming back to desserts over and over again. Yeah, I think you guys knocked it out of the park. 11:54 And if I'm not mistaken, was Grandma's recipe. Did she call it nice cream? NICE. That that's our way of, you know, our fun little way of being able to, to throw that word around. Yes, right. There are there are limits, just so you know and your listeners know there are limitations. 12:12 The reason why, like our product is called a frozen dessert is because in order to label it as ice cream, it has to have a certain percentage of I think it's milk, fat or cream inside of it. So if you have a look in the store and you wonder why is this in a, you know, called a frozen dessert and this is called ice cream. It's just that that requirement that, you know, to call your product and label it that way. 12:32 Oh, gotcha. Just a shame because it doesn't have the same ring to it. You know, it's harder to to say. Try our frozen dessert, Pines. Can you see mindsets out there? Yep. Exactly. So when you guys first started at Fronin, did you have any non negotiables that you weren't willing to compromise on? 12:47 Like even if you know it was going to factor in you guys growing slower, Was there anything that you were just like, no, we're not doing no matter what like an ingredient or anything like that? Oh. Absolutely, Brian. I mean, I'll, I'll list a couple, but I'm sure Brian, you, you can, you can add anything I forget, but I mean, certainly, you know, our, our heart is in non dairy. 13:07 So certainly I think, you know, we in in most of our in our category. That's, you know, that's kind of how it's defined though. You know, we we're in the non dairy side of, of frozen desserts. But I think certainly, you know, there are there are a long list of other things we're really committed not to using, you know, now or ever in the future. 13:25 That is things like gums, you know, which really, I think to be honest with you, have really hurt people's opinions of ice cream in dairy and non dairy. I think, you know, it's been used as a way to enhance texture while reducing some of the more expensive ingredients. 13:41 And I mean, personally, just as a consumer, I, I taste gumminess in my ice cream. I, I really don't like that experience. And never mind the, the health side of it, which of course is really important, but just the mouthfeel for me, it kind of is very negative. So we're committed to never use those, Brian. 13:57 What else are we not committed to using? I mean, just broadly speaking, I mean, it's anything that you can't, you don't know off the top of your head what that ingredient is or what the reason is for being there. And so I mean, just a few of the things that we are free of it's, you know, it's gums, dairy, gluten, soy, any sort of additives. 14:22 So gums, seed oils, artificial ingredients, preservatives, we've never had dyes or, and any of those things for yeah, there there's kind of like this whole laundry list of things that has to be really simple and natural. But when we join, you know, we luckily a had a really great understanding of, of the product and great relationship with the founders. 14:44 So it was very simple. And there wasn't any external pressure even from other investors, stakeholders or retailers to to change anything up because they understood what the vision was and they put their faith in US and we agree with it. We saw what was missing from the market and why it's important to make products like we do. 15:01 And so there was nothing ever that we thought or even had any sort of contention with of like, oh, maybe we should put in refined sugars. You know, those were things we were always like, Nope, these things are never going to be in it. We're staying true to what the brand is and never going to deviate from that. The the truth is, Margaret, we we actually enjoy that part of it, right? 15:21 We I like innovating out the things that you people, you know, have come to expect. Oh, well, you have to have that in a store bought product. You know, when you go to a like a really nice restaurant, you know, they advertise to you how how clean the ingredients are, how simple it is right way we make it fresh. 15:37 You use just this, the things that you're seeing on the menu, we're not adding in. You don't, can't imagine a Michelin star restaurant sprinkling some gum into your into your head, right? And so I, I think it's the same thing with us. We want to emulate what is that best possible food experience that people can have. 15:52 And you know, that's just like with our chocolate coating on our new products, which I'll do a shameless promo for we're working on releasing next year. You know, the chocolate coating, one of the things we ran into was the issue of lecithin, right, which is often used in very small quantities as like an emulsifier in things like a chocolate coating that go on an ice cream. 16:11 And often the most common lecithin that's used is soy, which is an allergen. And so we work with our, you know, our, our, our, our partners to say, Hey, why does all the chocolate coating in the market have this lecithin? Is it absolutely necessary? Can we make a great product without it? 16:27 And that's what we do. We do research, we do development. We wake up every day thinking, Hey, how can we take out these things? People have just come to accept or they don't understand. I, I don't know what a lecithin is personally. I know it's a powder that's made from something. And then, you know, they said, well, if you don't want to use soy, you can use sunflower. And I'm still thinking to myself, I don't want to use ground sunflower dust in this. 16:46 It doesn't feel like it's part of that experience of a dessert where you know, why every ingredient is there and it's impacting you in a positive way. And so that's that's what we wake up every day. And do we think, what can we do to kind of subvert expectations and help people realize, yeah, you don't need a less than in a chocolate coating to make it delicious and still apply nicely to a bar and have a great eating experience, you know, so that's that's it. 17:09 It's there's a lot of things that we would have never compromise on, but there's also things we don't even know yet that we think we can engineer out of products that aren't even, you know, a problem, maybe from a health perspective, but still get people closer to that, that true form of enjoying those flavours in their, in their purest form. 17:26 By the way, George does all of the R&D, so like this is? If that's not about it, if you can't tell, I'm not in my basement laboratory all the time, you know? It's true. We, we live only a few minutes away from each other. So like sometimes George has R&D days and I get to go over and just, you know, sit there while, while he's like, you know, whipping up different flavors and, and trying different experiences. 17:48 So I I'm definitely the beneficiary there. I think the food critics, you know. Yeah, exactly. I, I just get to be the critic. But I, I think, you know, part of it too is, you know, as George kind of hinted at, I think it's like there's a huge sense of achievement too, in being able to recreate these experiences and these chocolate coatings, for instance, by removing products that everybody else is using. 18:12 And so being able to create something that's still equally fantastic, but still a simpler, cleaner experience. I think it's a huge accomplishment. And it's still something that other brands really don't care to do because they tend to go with what's easiest and what's readily available and frankly, what's cheapest. 18:30 Yeah, we had, we had a buyer ask us this. We were at a meeting with one of our buyers and they were tasting our ice cream and the bar specifically. They're like, wait a second, this is so good. Why doesn't everybody make it with these clean ingredients? If you could do this? And I, I that's the question. We kind of wig up and ask ourselves what we kind of know why. On one hand, it's hard, it takes a lot of work. 18:47 It's it's you're constantly, you know, innovating every day. And some brands, obviously that's not their priority and, you know, they found that what they feel their market cares about more. But I think for us, we know that every time the consumer, to me, it feels like it's a one way ticket. 19:03 Once you know, you start looking at labels, you're never going to stop. And I think we want to start to help people say and, and expect more out of their ice cream, no less delicious, but certainly to expect that they're going to be given something with, you know, the highest quality ingredients. Totally. So you guys, you guys are in Sprouts, you're in Whole Foods and you're in Wegmans, which is a really big deal. 19:26 Like I've watched Shark Tank and I know it's not easy to get on groceries store shelf. So how did that happen? Did you guys pitch? Did they find you? Like how did all that happen 'cause that's awesome. Well, yeah, we've been fortunate because Eric and Jesse did a really great job kind of setting the stage and they got into Whole Foods in the Midwest. 19:47 And certain retailers, you know, Whole Foods and Sprouts being 2 examples, are really good about trying to create a, a kind of a discovery element within their store where they want to bring in smaller brands and local brands too, in certain cases to try to just add more variety and introduce them to the broader market. 20:05 And then also frankly see, hey, can these brands, can these products stick on shelf? And if so, is there an opportunity to expand them elsewhere? And so we were able to show. Through both great data, but then again, our commitment to being a really, you know, unique product on product on shelves and and something that's super differentiated and serves a different niche than you know, the other brands that frankly are competing directly against each other with the same ingredients, but maybe just different branding or slight tweaks from the formulation. 20:36 We're kind of like this carve out almost a non dairy and it's something that I think help has helped us really stand down and do incredibly well on shelf as a result. From the pitching side, retail is very difficult. There are obviously many layers between, you know, when product raw materials are ordered between production, getting it to distributors, getting it on shelf and all along the way. 21:02 But reviews of retailers where you get your opportunity to get on shelf, they're mainly they're basically just once a year. And so if you miss that one time and if you don't get it right and if you don't nail your messaging, bring the right data, prove over that time period since last review that you belong on shelves, you're gonna have to wait a full year. 21:23 And and you know, that's really difficult for a lot of brands who require scale and frankly customers to be able to keep the lights on. And so we've been very fortunate with, you know, we have a really great relationship with with some of the retailers and the buyers. And as a result of seeing us on shelves at some of these, I would say flagship retailers like Sprouts, other retailers have approached us because they say, hey, we've seen you there or we've seen you in syndicated data. 21:50 We see what you're doing in the category we want you in. And so that is is granted rare, but it does happen. And, and you know, when that happens, it's really kind of special because you build that one-on-one relationship immediately with that buyer. And it's just George and I. 22:06 And so we have that direct contact where we just say, let us know what we can do for you. And we're trying to make it work because the way we look at it is, yes, we want to be on shelves. We want to be able to grow the business, but we really want to be able to serve customers. And we've realized that every retailer is different. 22:22 Every, they have different requirements, they have different profiles or themes that they want to hit. And we want to be able to service them as best as possible. So it's kind of showing that partnership relationship too. I think that as you get in onto 1 shelf, if you can really prove that out and improve your willingness to work with a retailer, they're willing to do more for you and work with you. 22:42 That will then continue kind of like building incrementally, you know your sales and your visibility that will bring in other retailers eventually, but it's not easy. Long story short. Yeah, that I, that's Brian runs that for us. I do more of the making the ice cream side. 22:59 He does more of the selling of its side. And so I definitely appreciate that. It is really tough. I think though, you know, what I've learned is that if you wake up and you think about what are customers looking for and how can I make my product better reflect that and how can I make it so that every experience is a joyful 1 for them, then, you know, the rest tends to work itself out. 23:17 And I think our buyers at Sprouts, at Whole Foods and other places, they get our vision. You know, we had a buyer tell us what's that, You know, they understood the sort of existential need for a product like thrown in on in a natural food store. How can you have a, a, a store like call it a Whole Foods or Sprouts, right? 23:35 These green imageries of natural food and not have a product that's out there that is made with really with just Whole Foods and natural foods, right? And I think that that, you know, buyers pick up on that and they've really been so supportive of us and all of our retailers and both giving us feedback on how we can improve, which there always is something to do everyday, but also helping us understand how we connect to their vision of their customers and what they want. 24:00 And we feel really lucky again that this is something that that people are paying attention to in natural stores and now more and more so in in conventional retailers as well. And we see that as another big growth opportunity for us as we start to, as Brian said, to prove more and more that customers in every walk of the country care about the type of food they're being sold. 24:21 Right, right. So which one of the larger stores did you get in first or any of the stores? So I couldn't say what, what the first store is. That was Eric and Jesse. They, they launched back in 2018. But when we when we came in and, and about two years ago almost at this point they were in Whole Foods just in the Midwest. 24:43 So they were regional there. They were in Wegmans also and then they were in several other regional chains along with the nationwide chain Natural Grocers, which was one of their largest. I however, I think at that point their single largest client from a store count perspective. 24:59 And so they've been. Awesome too. Just want to throw some flowers, natural groceries away. They're an awesome retailer. They're Rocky Mountain focused. They're they're Rocky Mountain Folk, a region focused primarily, but they do go kind of all over the country. But they're also an awesome retailer with great vision around products like. 25:15 This I see them in my mom groups, my non-toxic mom groups them in on Facebook and I'm like, I've looked up like probably four or five times if they're around this area, I'm like, come on open a store here so I can check it out, but they're not they'll. Pass a word to our buyer to let them know. The reason why I was asking because I was just wondering like, how did you guys celebrate? 25:37 Did you like freak out or you were like, Oh my gosh, nervous? I, well, I mean, I'll, I'll put it from my perspective since, you know, obviously that impacts my side of, you know, responsibility. So immediately I was very excited and I was frankly, you know, to be on our our our first win was actually sprouts getting sprouts nationwide. 25:56 Sort of major win. Yeah, yeah. And and so that being our our first win, it was, it felt wild. It kind of felt a little surreal that we were able to, to win such a major client. And they gave us incredible space. They gave us a full shelf of seven skews, which is our largest amount of skews we have at any retailer nationwide and gave us our immediate largest door count under one roof and opened up so many different distribution centers that so we had now parts of the country that we weren't hitting before. 26:26 And so there were so many like layers of how incredible that win was. But in a weird way, we found out we were excited and very quickly afterwards kind of the reality sets in of what that means. What do you have to actually deliver? 26:42 Because there's not a huge timeline to be able to then spin up enough production to like finish, get all of the skews ready, get packaging materials, production time with Eric Co man, and then actually get our product on shelves. 26:58 So it went from to OK, well, now we have this list of things we have to do very quickly and just hit it as hard as possible. So you know, it, it, it's, and I feel like now it's a little easier because obviously again, starting I think with the biggest possible win first was a, a great lesson for us. 27:19 But it still carries to even, you know, a smaller regional retailer as well, or even an independent. You know that there's still more product that you have to be able to service. There is marketing that you have to do to try to make sure that you spread awareness about your brand and your products on shelf there. And so, but there's I think more excitement because we know how well our product does on shelves across the country. 27:42 And so we know that there's a a huge demand for it. And it gives us, I think hope that we know that we're going to be meeting new customers. We're going to be servicing more people that we were before. And part of, you know, that earlier conversation that we had about the messages that we received from people. 27:58 I think knowing that we're able to service those people who've been looking for a pilot like ours who really appreciate our approach to clean ingredients, I think kind of elevates the excitement a little bit more than I think, you know, the realities of delivering on production sometimes can kind of weigh it down. 28:16 Yeah. It's a great example, I think of that, what that feels like. There's this awesome customer we have on the West Coast who every three months emails and asks us to order, you know, like 36 pints of strawberry at once because cheese, like I, I can't eat anything else from a health perspective and a diet perspective and I just don't ever want to be without it. 28:35 And when Sprouts came in, now it's available locally for and I think, you know, that's what the power of these retailers do. They, they give us access to people who who otherwise feel like, you know, well, I've got to either try to order this online, which, you know, an ice cream is exceedingly difficult to do. 28:52 And it's, you know, but at the end of the day, you know, this access to all these folks that are already in stores like Sprouts, typically looking for better options, being able to find us is, is, is it for many people, it, it does. May I go as far to say it is life changing for some people, right? 29:08 The degree that knowing you can go to your, your local store and get a dessert that makes your day, that can change somebody's life. And we kind of our work with that kind of respect that it, it could change somebody's life, you know, and that if we, if we do our best and provide them with the most distribution, the easiest way to get our products and the best products available that we can, we can really make a difference for people. 29:32 And I think that's, I hope every brand kind of tries to look at it that way too. But I, I realize it's when you do that, it does get a little stressful. And so you know that we do wake up and we do stress out a little bit, but we do celebrate those big moments too. Yeah, well, I know when I first had heard of you guys, it was like the day or two before our daughter's third birthday party and I had to grab ice cream. 29:53 So I was like, Oh well, let me go grab some. And it was so easy 'cause it was right at Sprouts. So we got 5 flavors. Thank you, Sprint nuts. We love you, Sprouts. But I I do have a question. Can we? Use that as an ad like I want that clip for social. I'll give you I'll give you a quote for your website too. 30:10 From my own perspective, 'cause it is. If it's not life changing, it's made my life better. Having the option there, there in such a delicious treat, Yeah. That means a lot to us. That really means. A lot and love being able to serve your kids too on the birthday. That's so great, love that. Yeah, we did a, we did a scoop party for Brian's class and that was some of the most fun I've had. 30:28 You know, it was just an idea. Oh, it's so much fun. And we love doing stuff like that because again, you know, kids don't lie about their review of the product, right? You know, so when you see, when you see 4 year olds liking your midship, you know something's going really well. Yeah, exactly like that idea too. 30:44 A scoop party. Have you heard that before? It's like a. Yeah. Like we do that our I, I, I donated to our, our school's auction. So last year was the first year. We're going to do it again this year. So hopefully this year there's even more, you know, traction and awareness and so, you know, going to start the bidding wars hopefully. 31:01 So yeah. Well, guys, all the parents out there, if you're looking for something to do for your kids, school could do a little school party with Ronan. So I do have a question and you guys are going to laugh at me, but tell me the truth, OK? If you ever go into any of the stores that sell for Ronan, do you ever rearrange? 31:21 Make any rearrangements to make your product more? Visible oh so hold on so yes, got it no, no, so you're. Going to tell my truth, Brian, You can tell your truth, but I'm definitely guilty. Well, I I'm going to just catch it with us. We can actually take our Pines and put them on like a different shelf a the tags don't line up and that's just not something we can do. 31:44 Again, I'm speaking from. My perspective, I don't know about George answer, which is smart, but I'll move the dirt, the dirts for your podcast audience. That's what they're here for. They're here. What we're doing, you know, in real life. But I I face the Pines correctly, like the right way and make our shelf look good. 32:02 I don't move them around so but I'll let George shares we don't like. Relocate it, but sometimes, you know, stores will put those things on a suction cup on the outside that it's like they sell scoops or they sell like other accoutrement. And if it's blocking our view, I, I might move it to the one over. 32:20 I, you know, I only hit so many stores personally. So I feel like, you know, it's a, it's, it's as a percent, it's going to be very small in terms of an impact. But when sometimes you come in in summer and it's all frosted and I'll just defrost, you know, but there, there's little tricks to the trade. 32:36 So we're happy to share those. But it's funny because you, what happens is once people know you're in the ice cream business, my wife, my friends, my family, they all send me pictures after they rearranged it for us. So I was at the store, I rearranged it for you. It doesn't look great, you know, So it is really, it's a very sweet act of love we receive as ice cream owners, ice cream business orders. 32:59 I love it. I love it so much. So fun. OK, so. Before we move on, I wanna offer if you need a taste tester for some of your R&D days, I'm there, it's 5. Hours we're gonna. We're gonna send you. We got, we got we just ran these flavors. We're gonna send you the pineapple. These are, I mean, these are brand new. 33:15 I was just down in our at our new facility in outside of Tampa, FL and they turned out delicious. I mean, I, I, I thought I was ice creamed out after tasting like 50 bars when I was down there earlier this week. But I, I had one for lunch. The the lunch of champions. I had a mint chocolate bar. 33:30 So I, I'm excited. We'll get your feedback on these. I'll send them to you and maybe if you have like a, a special guest or listener, you do a giveaway. We'll happily send them some to them too to get. There, Yeah. That would be great, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Really appreciate that. And Carl, really appreciate the offer. But back off, man. That's my territory. 33:46 Right, like I got a lot sent back here. We got plenty to share. Yeah, no, the R&D days are fun. And like, I mean, what you see on shelf is a fraction. I'm talking I have downstairs like these mini pints that George created and I have 20 of them and like my wife is finally making me go through them. 34:08 But I've been like savoring them like one bite a night. But it's like there, there's so much more I think that we can do in that George is whipping up. And these bars, just so you all know, you're the first ones actually getting a look at them. We haven't made any announcements or anything like that outside of, you know, the retail buyers, but they're, they're amazing. 34:26 Like if you like our Pines, these bars are incredible. And, and I've shared with some family members and, and some friends who who tasted them in so far, like a couple of the bars are the hands down favorites, which says a lot considering you know how much I know some of my friends do go through some of these other flavors that we have. 34:49 No, it's great. So special that we got to see it, Yeah. So, OK, so does it. What does it actually take to stay true to your brand sourcing and ingredient standards when you're working with retailers? Have you ever had any issues with that at all? 35:05 Yeah, I would say, you know, overall the retailers are really positive anything. They want us to push the envelope on how we produce and how we innovate. They they, they kind of get who we are. They understand, you know, our focus is on clean ingredients and being a better for you product. And so they're excited when we come back to them with new ideas on ingredients. 35:24 But however, you know, the challenge for them, of course, is having those products and at a price point that feels like a great value for their consumers. And that's where we all have to work together. You know, it's probably no surprise that the price of everything has been going up the last few years for a number of different reasons. 35:42 And so our job is also, you know, you know, we we can't let's say, OK, we got to reduce the amount of, you know, say strawberry puree to save cost to get it at a certain price. So let's start using strawberry extract flavouring. We see we don't get that's not on the menu of options for us. 36:00 So we have to be even more creative in how we make that product still land at the right price point at every retailer and something that customers feel is affordable and they're getting a great value. And we can't do it with any of those shortcuts. And so we've, you know, that's led to a lot of really cool innovation on our side, but we've been happy so far. 36:22 We've never really had to. Maybe there's a few flavors we would have loved to have made that just weren't feasible because of that. But generally speaking, there's a way where there's a will, there's a way. And you know, we feel like we've never really had to make any sacrifices, neither because of our retailers or because of the cost of our ingredients going up. 36:38 We still hold true to products that are going to be, again, you know, made with only high quality ingredients and still turn out delicious. We just won't sell it if we can, if we can't deliver that. I love that. One thing I will say, there are a few retailers out there that have a requirement like that they that you have to be non-GMO certified. 36:56 That's probably the only thing. Yeah, I was going to say also big news last week, this is I think also we haven't even announced this yet, but we are officially non-GMO certified. We used only non-GMO ingredients, but just the actual approval process took some time. 37:12 Yeah. And and so that's the only thing pushback we ever received from a retailer where they from an ingredient perspective, they just needed to make sure that it was non-GMO certified. Otherwise, I know you, I know you were a little skeptical about like certifications and what it's labeled with, but I can tell you if you're worried about non-GMO, don't. 37:29 That was like they put us under the microscope. I mean, so if you're, if you're wondering, does non-GMO really look at what they're approving? They really do. I mean, they were at one point asking us for satellite imagery to make sure there were no GMO crops around, you know, where we source our honey from. 37:44 So they are very thorough. They take their jobs very seriously. So we're, I mean as Brian said, we're really proud of that because it is not a rubber stamp process and they really look at your entire supply chain, every ingredient, where it's coming from, how it's made, what's around it before they give you that. 38:01 So you know, we these kind of things they do take time as a small brand to get done. But when they are done, we want our consumers to know, hey, there is rigor in those processes and it does mean something when we put that label in our box. That's so great to know. Just from a consumer standpoint, you always wonder that, so that's really great. 38:17 And how do you vet your supplier? Is it the certifications or relationships without feelings? Do you know them how? How does that all work? Yeah, that's a great question. It's all of the above, honestly. You know, I think it's, it starts with like anything in in CPG, it's very much relationship based. 38:35 So just like you and as a consumer, you learn to trust certain brands, we also learn to trust certain vendors based on their, you know, their vision, their values and ultimately how they source and produce their products. And we'd like to work with as many vertically integrated suppliers as possible. 38:51 So for example, one of our primary coconut cream suppliers, they are, you know, managing, controlling all the way from production in Sri Lanka. And so we have visibility into the process, you know, down to the trees, the coconuts are coming off of. And that gives us a lot of confidence for our number one ingredient, for example, that we can understand that not only is it, you know, we know it's, you know, there's no carrageenan and, or, or, or, or gum or, or other, you know, other issues, it's organic. 39:20 We know all that based on the certification, the labeling, the testing, the tasting we do of it with every batch. But you know, we also know that it's, it's a, you know, they, they're following, you know, generally good forestry principles that they're supporting the local wildlife. 39:35 And you know, our, our smoking room supplier does 1% for the elephants. And so I think it's, you know, we're looking for people who not, aren't just creating a great ingredient, but our values aligned with not only us, but our customers. You know, we know our customers, yes, they care about healthier food, better for your food, but they also care about the way it's being produced all the way from wherever it needs to come. 39:55 You know, whether those ingredients are available in the States or they're not. We want to make sure that, you know, we help our consumers understand the story behind our ingredients and not just, you know, the fact that we got it at a good price or not, you know, or that we got an ingredient that was available or you know it. 40:12 It really does help us to to know that we've picked our suppliers based on the whole story and not just. You know, just the ingredient tastes good. That's great. And I'm so happy to hear that. And I think all the crunchy people listening to this, I'll love to hear that too, because we love to know about the ingredients we're seeing, so. 40:29 Yeah, it's so important to our audience. Have you guys ever have you guys ever had to walk away from a supplier because they didn't align with your values? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, or not work with them typically not walk away, but you know, walk away from potentially doing business. We've never gotten ourselves in a position where that's they've, they've changed while we've been working with them and we've had to walk, but we, but we would, but we would. 40:49 But I think we've, we've had to say, hey, there's certain suppliers. They, they really don't, you know, again, share the same values as our customers. And we don't want to, you know, be reliant on that, whether it's sourcing or sourcing from countries that may not have the same vetting process in terms of quality. 41:07 You know, those are the kinds of things that we're just not willing to, to, to, to again, even take the risk on, never mind, you know, put it in our product by choice. Right, right. Yeah. So when you think ice cream, you think something sweet. And I believe most of the flavors are sweetened through the coconut or honey. 41:24 That's right. Yeah, some with coconut sugar, but yeah, you know, and those are the vegan ones that don't have the honey. But mostly, honey is our sweetener, Yes. That's great. Perfect. And so I think I know the answer to this, but what ingredient in your lineup has the coolest back story? 41:41 Oh, that's a great question. I like that. Brian, what do you think? I mean, you were just talking about how our, our coconut supplier, you know, does 1% to the elephants they own. They have all ownership or oversight of the farms that they grow from. 41:59 I feel like that I think is a pretty powerful story. And they've also been a great partner who we've worked with for a long time now. I think that that's pretty great. I mean, if you want to expand into like, Oh well, it's what flavor I couldn't answer definitively. 42:19 I I got 1 Brian. So George. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna wrap my favorite flavor, just salted caramel because it's mango. OK, well, mango we got great. That's a that's a great honest mango's. Mine. That's been it's been a surprise hit for us. And I think we didn't even realize how successful mango was gonna be. 42:36 So there's a great story around that too. But I think for salted caramel, it's the one that one, I, it's my favorite flavor Fronin. And two, I think it's the one that surprises people the most in terms of how can they create this salted caramel flavor with four ingredients with just coconut cream, coconut sugar water and Himalayan salt. 42:56 And I think we get I, I swear we get emails from customers that go, where's the caramel? You know, where are all the ingredients? What coloring are you using? I saw I, I can, I would forward you this stuff if you're interested. A customer said, I saw you only list these four ingredients, but how are you getting the color into it? 43:12 How are you, you know, are you using? They just don't believe it's possible. And to me, that's, that's so satisfying for us, you know, and I think that that kind of represents sort of the, that, that subversion we like to do to get people to say, Hey, wait a second, you don't need all that. 43:29 And that we can innovate around the ingredients. And I think that's what mango ended up being. We said, Hey, what about the salt? Salt caramel is a, is a flavor we had around for a couple years. Mango is new as of this calendar year. And so, you know, we, we looked at salt the caramel, we recognized, hey, the texture on this is really great. 43:44 I mean the solids and the coconut sugar give it this instant scoopability and that some of our other products don't have as much, much of you have to let them thaw a little bit longer to get there. So we thought we're for new flavors, what could we do? And we went with, you know, mango, which has a very nice high solid count when you turn it into a puree. 44:02 And that makes it so creamy and scoopy. Nothing like a mango sorbet or anything like that. Really an ice cream experience with only three ingredients. I think that's always what's cool is that every flavor we come up with in some way is, is trying to use these ingredients to recreate an experience. 44:20 Like for example, this one, we haven't taken a maca yet, but my, my brother challenged me to come up with a gingerbread flavor. And so I'm like, how am I going to make gingerbread without molasses and without all these other things? And, and how can I keep it to like six ingredients or less and still get a gingerbread kind of cookie experience? 44:37 And so you know, what we found was you just try a bunch of different natural sweeteners until you find the perfect one. And coconut nectar, which comes from the SAP, is like a perfect proxy for molasses. And so I made that a little ginger puree, I mean, and it's really good. 44:53 I mean Brian, you, I mean again, I'm gonna toot. My, I have some downstairs. Yeah, that's that's one of those. Yeah, but I mean, and it and it tastes like gingerbread and it's just what sticks ingredients. So I think this is the the fun part of what we do. It's it's, you know, every flavor is born from a is there any real way to create that without all of these ingredients? 45:12 You you usually expect half to be part of this product and still feels like a true experience for for people who are gonna take a bite of it. Yeah. And no flavor additives like that's I think what most brands fall back on because that's the easy way around it. Yeah, it sure is, and I love that. 45:28 That's a good limited edition idea for the holidays. I say I want to see it next year. Yes, run our mind. Yeah, Yeah, we're gonna work on that for you. It's it's very good and it's got that satisfy, you know, cinnamon speckling in it. It's just so delicious. So sounds really. Good. I also had some mango last night and that was delicious. 45:46 Thank you. That was yeah, that's my favorite, that in salty caramel. That's like the head to head battle. I also am a big fan of peanut butter chocolate chip but. I haven't tried that one, but Farrah told us, too. She was like, you have to get, you have to try the salted caramel kind 'cause I told her I was like, oh, I'm gonna grab some of this for my daughter's birthday party. 46:04 And she's like, get the salted caramel. It is it is it is it is really it's one of our best flavors. I'm and excited it is it is also going to be a slight variation of it is going to be in one of the bars We're making this caramel chocolate, which you'll see it only has eight ingredients. 46:19 It's got a rice puff crunch, chocolate coding and the ice cream right now, which you know, that's four. So you know, we're really happy we can again, I think if you look at most of these bars, they're going to have well in excess of 20 ingredients in them. And so, you know, we feel that, you know, this one with, you know, mostly coconut based ingredients is going to be, you know, really popular and it's it's really dangerously good. 46:41 This one might be a little bit in the less than healthy side of things just because it's very addictively delicious. Well, that's good. It's definitely a healthier option than what you. Would want for sure. Yeah. Well, our, our, our, our approach, I mean, I think with most of our products is just do figuring out what flavors are out there and what products exist that people really love and crave, and then being able to develop and deliver a clean version of it better for you option with fewer ingredients. 47:12 And so I mean, I think it, there's some, you know, crossover where you see something that maybe people eat a lot of it and there's a popular product because it tastes good, but the ingredient quality isn't there, but it's the only way to get it. And we're trying to say there's a better way that you can actually enjoy this flavor and have the same type of product and frankly a more delicious and better for you format. 47:36 Right. I was. That's what I was gonna ask you actually. I was wondering how you guys come up with new flavors? Is it consumer feedback or is it just something? Hanging out in George's basement. Yeah, I was gonna say and and and George, George's brother, he just said it right there. Yeah. My brother, my brother, our families, your wife Brian, you know, and your kids. 47:53 I mean, I think that's that's it's usually comes from something like that, but I mean to be, but I know Brian does a lot of, you know, looks at a lot of industry data and research that gives some directionality and then Brian will pass me ideas. He thinks, Hey, you know, these things are things we think would be customers are looking for. 48:10 What can you make that again, holds true to, you know, your our principles and our values. That's going to taste fantastic. And then, you know, usually it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly when our show stoppers are going to be, you know, like our pineapple flavor. We that is just something that's out of this world. 48:26 It's super low ingredients. It's just three and and then fun ones like this vanilla chocolate almond, which you know Ryan, I know that's one of your wife Kate's favorite flavors. And so it's just. Favorite Favorite product? Yes. It's a product, yeah. And. So, you know, I think this is one of those, those those things where, you know, because ice cream is such a accessible thing that everybody in the world I think understands, you know, you can tap into it. 48:53 So personally, anywhere you go, I can turn to anybody I meet in the store and my family and my friend group and say, what do you think of this or what do you think of this flavour and get inspired. And so I think, you know, that's the one thing we're definitely not lacking of is, is, is friendly notes from our customers who ask us for stuff or from friends and family that inspire us with new ideas all the time. 49:14 And, and that's again, you know, what I like doing and weekends and late at night, you know, sitting in my basement with my ice cream machines, just, you know, again, the pineapple that was one of those labor of loves where I was actually had a friend come over and just, you know, it's, it's something like now people do with me. 49:30 It's sort of like I, I, my own career. I'm for 15 years, I've been involved in HR. I'm actually a professor in human resources, which I won't talk about on your podcast, don't worry. But but you know, it is, it's such a change. You know, used to be people asked me for resume reviews. Now everybody says, come over while you're making some ice cream. 49:48 And so I was, I was making pineapple with my friend and we made like 15 versions of it until he was satisfied with the pineapple thing, you know, And so that's the kind of fun you get to have with this product and you get the instant feedback from people. But most importantly, Brian, I think it's like when your son tries it and you get the instant like, is this a hit or not? 50:09 You know, a kid never lies about whether an ice cream product is going to be a hit or not. And so I think that's, you know, it's that balance of of listening to our customers, but also just trusting our instincts and our families and our friends feedback that lets us, you know, innovate all the time and try new stuff all the time. 50:25 That's actually the kind of the beauty of making a product that isn't full of these like micro, you know, industrial components, like how do you make all these flavors at home? I go, well, you know, I got coconut cream, I got honey and I'm putting in something else and I'm seeing how it comes out and how I might, you know. 50:40 And so, you know, it takes a lot of work to get it to that perfect sellable product. It's not easy, but it is really easy to test and learn because you're not, you know, relying on using weird small portions of artificial ingredients, you know, that are very difficult to do in small kitchens. Like if I if you were making your flavors with ice cream out of extracts, you're talking about in a small batch, you're making it home a drop, making a huge difference in the overall output. 51:04 So it's really nice when you have more control because you're using those ingredients in their whole or pure form. Great. Yeah, that's so much fun. Yeah. How did, how did you learn to start making ice cream yourself? Right. It was just through effort, through trying. I had a little bit of transition help from Jesse, who was the founder, who was really the ice cream savant to really taught me everything I know about making ice cream. 51:27 I'm she might disown me if I, if I say that publicly, but you know, she, I mean, we learned a lot from the production process, improving production with our Co man. And, you know, tasting a lot of the ice cream over time and seeing what little things do to the quality, the texture, the consistency, the flavor, and as you do that, it's really weird. 51:46 I wish it sounds a little bit crazy, but sometimes you just grab these things out of the ethos. It just it's kind of like a beautiful ice cream. Mind you, just are like, oh, if I just did this, you know, and with the gingerbread, it was exactly like that. The gingerbread I made, the one that I sent Brian, the one I would actually put out on the shelves was my first. 52:03 I just sat down my computer and was like, I think 4% ginger puree. And I, you know, I just sort of like eyeballed it based on how I experienced different flavors influencing the the end product. And sometimes it just, it's like Mozart's work. It just again, compared myself to Mozart Normal Friday for me. 52:21 But you know, it just comes together organically. And then sometimes you just grind at it really hard, like with pineapple, you know, and I was just like 39% pineapple, 41% pineapple, 43%. And you know, and it really, you know, just try to taste that little difference and, and find what kind of has that perfect blend of sweet of creamy, of fruity or indulgent. 52:43 And it, it just it, it really is a process you learn just like an art and the beauty of something. I think that's as subjective as taste is that I again call myself Mozart. I'm going to call myself an artist now. And you kind of are like an artist. 52:58 You, you present something knowing that 10 people will all taste it differently. How can you make that experience something that you think everyone will absolutely love? It's kind of like making art. You don't know. You just got to create it and put it out in the world and let people tell you what they love about it and they don't love about it, you know? 53:14 Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's wonderful philosophy. So I'm going to ask Brian, has he ever turned one over that is just a complete flop? So yes. But here's here's how I have to couch it with not my favorite, but it's still in my freezer right now and I'm not gonna throw it out. 53:33 I'm gonna just eat it slowly. Like, you know, it's still not that bad. So it's not that bad. You know, it's it's frozen again, non dairy frozen dessert. It it can't be that bad. But it it was a version of a, a, a, a, a, a, a riffon, a chocolate and mint sort of thing. 53:50 And there were multiple variations. One variation was just did not sit with me. It was a little too sharp and peppermint tea. But the other one then I told George and I now share this with buyers. They gave me like that ratatouille moment where it's just like it took me back to like a moment of my childhood getting like an Andes bar from my grandparents. 54:11 And so it's like there are those moments where George has actually had that happen twice because he did that with an apple, a caramel apple pie flavor. Also, again, like you, you mentioned the gingerbread as a seasonal thing. Like right now a lot of what George has worked on also over the summer with all of these ideas is also trying to figure out, you know, we have right now our biggest limitation is shelf space. 54:33 You know, we have to get a full shelf at the retailer is between 5:00 and 7:00 different skews. And so we already have a really great slate right now. And so now we're iterating, improving and trying to find enough variety so retailers can fix their mix however their customers want it to be. 54:51 But what we also want to do is be able to have those gingerbreads, those apple pies, the chocolate mint, and there's other more seasonal flavors that are going to be kind of the that interesting seasonal thing that gets people to try us or gets people to stop and be like, I've never seen that before. I would love to try that and see how that ends and try to bring in new customers that way to try our products, understand what we're doing and then be amazed and and hopefully you know, relaunch it in, in the coming years too, especially with more feedback under our our belts. 55:23 Right, right. That's all good. OK, so let's play a little game. OK, so we're going to name a flavor and you guys interpret what type of person would love it, like kind of like a personality reading. OK, OK. OK, Mango. 55:41 I think somebody who loves mango is the life of the party. They're just exploding with energy probably. And they need that like a Hummingbird. They need a nectar to feel them. And so the mango is like that kind of nectar for them. So I I can definitely see our mango eaters as being again, that kind of that fun and energetic type. 56:00 That's a great idea. By the way. Again, mango is my #1 flavor, as I said, Yeah, I'm wearing a mango colored throne in sweatshirt right now. So, yeah, yeah. So you're the life of the party. I mean, you know, I, I don't think that many people would call me that right now. Again, you know, it's maybe between George and I, but not quite. 56:21 OK, salted caramel. I'll take that one. That can be me. Genius level intellect. Exactly who's trying to take my job? Yeah. Yeah, that is, that is appropriate. Actually, I don't. Know about the genius part? Yeah. Quiet. 56:38 But I think a salted caramel person is definitely like a a Yolo type of person who is like a carpe diem. Like you wake up and you think, how am I going to live life to the Max and how am I going to eat the most delicious indulgent ice cream I can today? And I think salted caramel sort of represents for us the most indulgent flavor we offer, you know, in a world of, of, of better for you and healthy, you know, salted caramel is they're designed to kind of make your day with something delicious. 57:05 And so I think people who kind of look at every day and go, yeah, I want to maximize this and I want the most delicious indulgent thing I can possibly get at it today. They're, they're the, they're the folks that are going to like salt caramel. Brian, do you think differently or not? No, I agree with you all. Right. I think you're coming up with some good descriptions for, yeah. 57:24 OK, Madagascar vanilla. Yeah, Brian. I'm going to let George say no because I, I would say, you know, I, I would say more traditional liking kind of to experience the, the real flavor of it, maybe a little more calmer personality. 57:42 I just say somebody nostalgic, like people who grew up with like that classic scoop of vanilla and they love the tradition. They're like, yeah, again, somebody who loves like the family traditions and, and love sort of the simplicity of, of, of a delicious flavor that reminds them of, of happy times to that of before and happy times to come. 58:02 I think to me, one of my best friends, he loves vanilla and I, and I'm like, you know, you, you're such a huge supporter of us. Can you please, it's a quick story. Actually, it's kind of funny because it's one of those things that you're like, thank you, but not so much. Thank you. My friend, I mean, one of my closest friends, he, he loves our vanilla so much. 58:18 He went to his local, yes, organic market and he went to the manager and said, hey, by the way, my friend runs this ice cream company. I love their product. Can you please stock it in your store? And he goes, OK, sure. I'd love to. You're a customer, you know, we'll take in what, what flavors do you like? And he goes just, it's vanilla, you know, and I'm like, next time tell him you like all the flavors, you know, even if you just buy the vanilla. 58:40 But he, he eats, I mean, seriously, 3 or 4 pints a week, he puts it in his morning smoothie and he has it as a treat at night. And so he's that kind of guy who just, he's, you know, he just loves sort of those traditional delicious snacks and he always kind of honors rituals and things like that. 58:56 So I think you know, he, he's who what reminds me of a vanilla sort of Eater profile. That me too. And I'm happy you mentioned the smoothie too 'cause I was gonna ask, you probably were too. Can. I haven't tried it, but can you put this into a smoothie? And you just answered the question. 59:13 Sounds like it would be great. Yeah, yeah, it's great. And then you can skip the ice in your smoothie too 'cause it's got that cold factor, you know, and so I mean, it makes for a fantastic smoothie. I, I have to ask him, He puts in, he, he uses it with I think the vanilla with some greens and he's putting in blueberries and some spinach and stuff like that. 59:28 But I'll get his recipe. And I think, Brian, that's one thing we're adding to our website is more recipe moving forward as well. So if you have suggestions though, please let us know. Or if you're listening and you have a, you try something out and it's fantastic, please let us know. We'll put it up on our website. We actually just posted on social a Halloween blended chocolate drink in a blender, kind of like a smoothie with some almond milk and some other stuff in there. 59:51 And so, you know, it's something that we definitely see other people doing. We've seen people also do like cocktails using our strawberry and so like drinks using thrown in actually has been kind of taking off a bit. And it's a fun way to enjoy it. Yeah, I think so too. 1:00:07 OK. So we just have two more. So mint chocolate chip or mint chip? The profile of a mint chip, I'm going to say it's the kind of treat yourself kind of person, you know. I feel like mint chip for me has always reminded me of thinking of my mom who loves mint everything, mint chocolate. 1:00:27 And so she's always looking for that, you know, that extra, what's that something that can end cap, you know, my day. And she loves desserts in general. And so I always think of somebody who isn't afraid to treat themselves who's again, very excited by desserts. 1:00:46 And every time I I find a mint chocolate lover, they tend to also just be kind of that chocolate lover type who who loves when they like their desserts. They tend to like all of the chocolatey stuff we do instead of, you know, maybe the fruit side. My mom loves, she thinks the mango's great, but she's always going back to the peanut butter chip, the mint chocolate. 1:01:04 So I always think of my mom and and somebody who kind of lives for desserts when I think of mint chocolate. Brian did it. Did you think of anything better than that? No, nailed it. OK, one more. You guys are doing great by the way, 'cause I know this is kind of hard on the spot, so it's just like a fun, no? 1:01:22 No, I love it. No, I love. It actually, it's a lot of fun. I I love it. It's this is a great time. OK. And then PB and J. Yeah, I would say, oh, Brian, go for. It I would say somebody who's a little funky likes to try kind of different things is not really doesn't the way I don't always put it is that, you know, you could drive maybe to the same destination every day, but every day you want to take a different route. 1:01:51 You don't want to necessarily keep going the same path. You want to try something different, Switch up your ice cream, switch up your desserts, kind of do things on the fly. That's how I would. Yeah, definitely adventurous. I was gonna say, Brian, you stole it Exactly. Somebody adventurous is like, yeah, why don't why haven't I had peanut butter and Jelly and ice cream form. 1:02:08 You know, I, I, I I love our customers that help us kind of see and demand kind of the things that are, are more adventurous. It pushes us as a brand. So the PB and J was a great example of that and the flavor we we absolutely love love making for people. I love that. 1:02:24 OK, so now we just want to talk a little bit about you guys in balancing leadership and everything. So just curious, leading a purpose driven company, how do you protect your energy from burnout? It's. A funny month old. So I mean, I don't know if that's possible really, but. 1:02:42 No, well, I mean it, it, it, it, it's funny, 'cause yeah, I, I, I have two kids again, A5 year old and a five month old. And over the summer, just for context, you know, I had newborn was not, I handled night shifts. I wasn't really sleeping well, that's the middle or that's kind of like the, the beginning of review season for retailers. 1:03:02 And so it's definitely the most intense time, unlike the sales and marketing perspective or side of things, especially considering one, it's peak ice cream season. So you're having to push out more content, you're getting a lot more feedback. You're dealing with a lot more, I think than you do throughout than other times throughout the year. 1:03:18 But it's it's weird, you know, I think ice cream is fun. I think this brand is fun. And more importantly, that there is so much purpose behind it that you kind of just like block out that noise and exhaustion and you push through it like you just know that you have to deliver on something. 1:03:35 And so you kind of, I wouldn't say compartmentalize because that sounds unhealthy, but you almost like think about it from the perspective of like you compartmentalize that you have all this other stuff going on that it's really hectic and life is busy, but you also have this thing that among many things is extremely important and is extremely valuable to other people as well. 1:03:55 And so you use that basically just like energize yourself and motivate yourself to just deliver because there's a cost if you don't ice room. Also, honestly, it's fun. I, I don't know if I'd feel the same way if it was, you know, and I'm not saying this in a, a, a, you know, mean way or anything, but if we were selling oatmeal or something, I don't know if I'd wake up and feel that same level of energy and excitement everyday. 1:04:18 Then if I'm selling and and dealing with a product that's fun and is something that families love and post about and care about and that has such a strong impact or meaningful impact on people who can eat other products. 1:04:34 So I think that that's something that at least from, you know, a stress and burnout perspective definitely helps and kind of like helps you kind of like you like push off any of that stress and exhaustion to get through the kind of the next phase. 1:04:50 Because ultimately things do lighten up, right? Whether it's, you know, kids getting older or other circumstances changing, it's kind of just getting through that current phase, so. Yeah, I mean, my, my honest answer for that, Brian. And I think you've done an, an excellent job, you know, managing your energy and it's so important. 1:05:08 But for me, I mean, yeah, I'll, I'll be honest. Like, yeah, I get burned out. And some days of the week, you know, I just kind of edge out and do the as little as possible to get through the day. And I just sort of treat those days like they're sacred. And once in awhile you have to have it. But you know, like Brian said, this is a fun business. 1:05:26 And so while even when you're burning out, you're kind of burning out having a good time just like it was just honestly like eating too much ice cream. You know, that kind of burnout, you know, it's it's never you never really feel burned out. Like, why am I doing this? Because so often you're getting people sending you pictures of the meeting your ice cream or you're seeing customers post it on Instagram. 1:05:45 Just the other day our our friend sent me this their cousin eating one of our pineapple bars. Just slow MO, not a care on the world, just sitting there smashing a pineapple bar, which is brand new. And I'm like, that is worth 1000 bad days at the office, you know what I mean? 1:06:03 And so I think that's what you do. You just remind yourself there's so many parts of what you get to do in feeding people, being part of this really great chain of brands and businesses that put food out there for people. It's really when you step back from it, it is an honor, it is a privilege and the role we get to play. 1:06:22 I mean, we're going to sell a million pints this year. The way the way that you think about 1,000,000 little experiences you created for people, it really humbles you and it and it makes you feel so good about what you do, especially if you commit as we feel we do to doing it in the right way, unapologetically, you know, and I and I think that's that that really fuels us everyday. 1:06:43 And then, and then, you know, also just getting out there in front of the customers. I'm out there, I'll be all out there all winter doing demonstrations at Whole Foods in my local community. You know, meeting the customers like that brings me joy to see people eat the ice cream at the end of the day. Yeah, I love paperwork. Who doesn't? But nothing like seeing people eat the ice cream. 1:07:00 And so getting out there and doing as much of that is, is also what keeps, you know, you energized around this work. Yeah, it's funny actually, the conferences that we've gone to, we've only done 2 now and most people I know get exhausted the more and out by them. We love it because it's like we're in front of customers, we're in front of people being able to talk about the brand, share it and see their reactions and get their feedback in person and be able to like see what they like about it, what you know, what do they want to see from us. 1:07:30 It's really just I, I think a really meaningful experience. But then, you know, going back to even what George said, he is going to be doing demos locally over here. But you know, for, for me also meant doing the sales and marketing side. Like yet the burnout, yes, it's doing a lot of stuff, but I know that if I can push through and I can get down on more shelves, maybe I'll see them somewhere else. 1:07:54 Maybe somebody I know will see them. Like I have family members now text me when they see it at their local store. And that's really cool to me. And being able to take my son into a store and he literally is like, there's daddy's ice cream. I mean, that's everything. So I you, you think about that in in your head. 1:08:09 And so it's not only just your own personal experiences, but you know, it's other people who are having that too, because there are the kids who aren't able to eat other brands like, and we've gotten these messages too. And so them going and saying I can get this and see men in the store, like how can you not want to do that on a bigger scale and just keep pushing every day to be able to do that. 1:08:31 It's also the little things though, like, but my favorite, what I look for when somebody's trying it is I want them to do that, that look away and the spoon point where they go, Oh my God, And they're pointing out at. This. Point. Every time I see somebody with the the spoon point for emphasis about how much they like it, that's, you know, again, that refills the the the cup so quickly. 1:08:51 You know, when you get the people who can't handle the flavor, you know, they're just so excited by it. And you know, that's at the end of the day, it's all the work, all everybody does. It's not just Brian. And I mean, let me say, hey, here's a message we're getting from folks who they couldn't buy anything. You're part of that and everybody who helps touch front, which is dozens of people to get it out there on the shelves and all the way through our retailers and distributors and the people who stock it into the into the grocery store shelf, they're part of that story. 1:09:16 And for us, you know, that story is, is worth every tough moment we have working, you know, to solve problems, to get it out there for people. It's really just such an awesome experience and and so humbling. Totally. You guys are a good balance. Yeah. 1:09:33 I'm just saying resident on couple. I think, I think I'm the Walter Matthau. But you know, we we worked. With a brand ambassador at one of these conferences, we were saying and I guess the feedback that they gave to the person who we work with who helps manage some of our our demos and our marketing was that we're basically like an old married couple. 1:09:54 So, you know, business trips, we, we, we do sit next to each other on the plane. We do crossword puzzles together, you know, so there are some definite overlaps where it's, you know, we balance each other out, I think in a good way, I think. So too I was going. To ask actually who is more into the packaging like creating packaging. 1:10:13 It's really both of us. It's a team effort. We have these awesome designers, Macaroni, they their names are Ron and McKenzie. So it comes together to being Macaroni and just putting a plug out for them because they're they're amazing people and we work with them really closely, you know, but we have AI think we have a a really good vision. 1:10:31 We want the brand and the and the design to reflect. You know what we are. We want to be transparent. We want to be easy to understand, clear labeling and a clean look to match, you know, but also, you know, again, fun and indulgent as well for the eyes, but knowing that you can easily see. 1:10:47 And that's why on everything we do, we have the ingredient count right on the front. So you know, exactly, you know what's going into your products. And we're never going to hide that from customers. But both of us, Brian and I, we have long opinions about design and that's, that's actually, as you said, a great balance. We both, you know, we take the best of both of our opinions, we Duke it out and then ultimately we get the best thing out there for everyone. 1:11:09 Perfect. Yeah. Have you kicked the idea of a ice cream shop? Brick and mortar I was. Gonna. Ask. Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. What? Do you say every? Weekend I I mean George's basement's working out fine right now there's no but yeah, I mean look, you know, never say never. I I think that it, there's a lot of different dependencies and past that I think that we can take in the coming years. 1:11:32 And, and you know, to answer your question earlier, Marguerite about, you know, what does the next 12 months look like for us? Obviously novelties right now, that's the big launch and it's our new big innovation that we think is going to be really important and valuable to retailers on shelves. It just as we know that because of the selling cycle that could be the next year or two focus, but we have new flavors and a lot of it right now is that we have a lot a much larger national presence now thanks in part to Sprouts and some of our other retailers, Whole Foods we've gotten, we've also gotten into some other larger regional retailers as well. 1:12:08 I think that's really helping boost our profile. And so now it's trying to figure out how to saturate the rest of those markets and tap into the other areas that we still have not yet reached. And trying to find those retail partners that we can actually really hit every corner of the country in a meaningful way and deliver on not just our current Pines, but on these novelties, make sure that we have the right fix, the right mix there and the right products that we get on shelf and be able to then create. 1:12:38 A A a good. Next round revision basically of what flavors worked well, what do we think shell are missing on shelves and being able to have those conversations with retailers too, to see what do they even want? Like is there a flavor that they want us to add? 1:12:55 If so, you know, that's something that I'll, I'll send George down to his basement to start working on, you know, tomorrow. But it's it, you know, it's a lot of just starting to really understand what do retailers want now that we're proving commodity and trying to figure out what's the dex mix for everybody. 1:13:14 Yeah, we just won't stop innovating. You know, we we won't stop innovating until we figure it out or put pressure honestly on every brand in the space. That's our our job as I think one of the first movers in really clean, especially clean non dairy is to put pressure on everybody to start look at how look at ingredients and we want to lead, we want to lead brands. 1:13:33 Ultimately though it's a differentiator for us and you know it's a reason why people are buying us. We welcome everybody else also trying to make products that are better for consumers and letting that challenge and playing with that on that playing field where the the table stakes are using the best ingredients. 1:13:51 And then let's all, you know, compete with each other, you know, around how do we innovate with the best flavors, the best texture without adulterating products with ingredients customers aren't looking for. And so whether it's our novelty bars, which are definitely something super exciting for next year, or maybe it's the cookie sandwich, we had a customer used ChatGPT, they would make a mock up. 1:14:13 They're like, please make this product of a Frotin Ice Cream Sandwich. So we love it when our customers even do stuff like that. But you know, that could be something you look at doing. So when, when hopefully people think of their brand, they, they not just think about, hey, there's somebody I can trust, but somebody when they come up with a crazy flavor that we know it's still gonna hold the same type of ingredient profile, the same values, the same, you know, trustworthiness. 1:14:34 Even when we come up something wild like, you know, caramel apple pie or, you know, gingerbread cookie, and we still do it with only a handful of whole ingredients. That's, that's our hope. But that's, and that's, and again, that's the, you know, that's the fun. And that's what we know customers will really appreciate is if we wake up every day and we think what's what's something new we can do for that. 1:14:53 Totally. And OK, I had one more question for you, but I just thought of one more, so I have two more. You love it. I just want to know, like for any listeners that are kind of maybe in the process of starting a brand, what advice would you give somebody? 1:15:11 That's a great question. Yeah. I mean, Brian, I'll start, but jump in, please. I think, you know, definitely think of, I mean, start with what you love and what the people around you love who can give you feedback on it and help you figure out what it is you're really trying to make and why you're trying to do it. 1:15:30 And I think that's one of the best things about Froman is our, our mission and our purpose is super clear. You know, we know what we're setting out to do. We're not trying to be something we're not. And I think it's very tempting when you're starting a brand and you're getting feedback and you're trying to figure out what it is, is to lose sight of what you can be and what you kind of can evolve into and not trying to be everything for everyone. 1:15:49 And you know, if you start with that truth and you hold on to it as long as you can and you do all the other stuff, well, then you'll find that fit and ultimately you'll find success. And so, and don't be scared, right? Don't be scared to, to, to follow those values Again, I, I, I want to keep saying do that unapologetically and be yourself and be your own brand. 1:16:09 If you feel like you're, you're making those compromises, then then maybe you've gone too far off what your vision was for your brand. And it's OK to stop, regroup and, and try to go back to that and, and hold it to that as as much as you possibly can. So, so definitely, you know, don't be afraid. 1:16:25 And I, and I encourage everybody to try it, everybody to learn and do it. You know, it is one of those things where cracking into it and trying to make a product. Surprisingly, you know, again, as somebody who's never made ice cream and now makes it professionally, anybody can do it. I I want to say that I don't want to discourage people from thinking it's possible, but then you know, the work that follows is real and and be be ready to take it seriously. 1:16:51 Yeah. I would also say don't chase growth. I think it's very, you know, enticing to think about getting into large retailers and thinking that that's the goal that you need to do as soon as possible. But it really is about finding the right fit and the right retailers for your product. 1:17:08 Because if you go into the wrong retailer, First off, it's expensive and you could wipe your business out if you aren't either well capitalized or really prepared, frankly, to be able to take on what the needs of that retailer are. And being able to service customers and frankly being able to market to to them and build your brand up enough. 1:17:26 It's hard to stand out and on shelves, honestly. And so if you're going, I would say starting in a much more targeted manner at the right retailers and being ready to scale up if the right opportunities present yourself, but not chasing something just because it's more doors or something like that. 1:17:44 Yeah, the hype is so CPG is a hype business. There's a lot of hype involved and hype is a great thing and it can really help a brand, but can also really hurt a brand because you know, hype is great and it feels you, but it's, it doesn't sustain you. And so I think you know, the details sustain you, the care, the, the, the, the work you put into making the product the best possible every day is what sustains the brand, not the concept and not the initial energy around it. 1:18:12 And so I think, you know, that's the balance is tough. It's hard to know when you're kind of, you know, just sort of living off off hype and not really focusing on long term making a because this also happens a lot of better for you. I'm sure you've seen this because this is one of the hardest parts. We have a lot of customers say I love your product, but I'm scared will it be in stores next year? 1:18:31 Because you can create a brand, you can get a product on shelves even it's, it is hard, but can you build the economics around it, the supply chain around it? So you can do it year in and year out and service these customers for the long run and let them fall in love with the brand and not have it go to the wayside after a year or two. 1:18:48 And I think that's what we're also really trying to do with throwing is to be humble and be do it quietly and work on building a brand we know can last for our customers and not just something that grows and grows and grows, has a ton of hype and then collapses under its own weight. Right, right. That's great advice guys. 1:19:04 I think so too, especially for this the crunchy community right coming in and trying to compete with the the mess we've made of the food industry and any other industry that we're we're talking to to folks from. But wonderful advice, really appreciate. It yeah and I I mean, again, more the more brands and the more folks that get involved, you know, either as customers by voting with their dollars or with ideas and things they'd want to see that changes the world. 1:19:27 It really does. And so your I hope your listeners feel empowered, you know by the story of 222 guys who are, you know, jumping in and and taking his business and and putting ice cream in front of millions of people. You know, they hope they feel empowered to do that and to help get crunchier products out there and to feel like, you know, that they should do it and that they're welcome and invited to do it. 1:19:50 And they don't feel discouraged by the, the as you said so well, the way that the current food system is set up, which might feel like, how can I even make mass produced food if unless I'm hyper processing and they're using all this other stuff? It it is possible, you can challenge the status quo. 1:20:06 Right. And I'm so happy you mentioned that because that was one of the reasons we started the podcast, because we truly believe in voting with our dollars because that actually is like really matters the most out of anything. And one of the reasons why we wanted to start the podcast, not only to give different perspectives for listeners to decide what's best for them, but also to highlight the brands that we feel like are doing, giving better options and providing, you know, higher quality ingredients. 1:20:35 So I'm really happy that you mentioned that because that's exactly how we feel. Yeah, We love what you're doing because it's so important. It is hard. I mean really that's one of the biggest challenges we have is just awareness. And so we really appreciate what you're doing for, for brands and products and communities like us, because it's amplifying us, it's amplifying our message and helping people find us. 1:20:54 Just like you said, you know, if only you had known about us four months ago. And the same thing says if your podcast had come out, you know, somebody, you might have heard about us. And so I think, you know, we think about that every day. And we're just so grateful when we can meet great folks like you who are out there helping people, you know, find people like us who are trying to to find them. 1:21:12 And, and through that community you're building, we all can be, you know, even crunchier and better lives. And so I think we're super grateful to you, not just for the time, but but for what you're doing and amplifying, you know, the message of brands like ours. Oh, that's so. 1:21:29 Sweet. Yeah, it really is. No, we really appreciate, we really appreciate that you guys have come on today like we we always say like let's trend awareness, right? If nothing else, let's just bring this message out to everyone. And I think what we've talked about today is just perfect. It's awesome. I think anyone who listens is really going to be encouraged. 1:21:44 It's really going to resonate with them and hopefully they'll all go out and buy some Fronin. Yeah, Brian, do we have some sort of kind of, we, we can offer it maybe when you post it like our e-mail, get a coupon or something like that. But we'd love to, if you're listening to this and you want to try it, just reach out to us. 1:22:00 We will get you coupons. We want to let you, you know, you're our new VIPs. We want you to try it. So just let us know and we're happy to send you either a code or a, a physical coupon whenever's easier for you. Oh. I love it. Yeah, we'll make something happen. Yes, use code. Unapologetically crunchy. 1:22:16 You probably. Yeah, you always. Do crunchy or crunchy. Pod crunchy. Yeah. OK, so yes, for any of you crunch heads out there, we we got you. We will hook you up. All right. OK, so where can everybody find you on your socials, your website? 1:22:31 We talked about stores, but anywhere else you want to mention? Yeah, so we're at eatfronin.com. You can find us at Eat Fronin and we're on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Same handle across all of them retailers Whole Foods, Sprouts, Natural Grocers, Raley's, Wegmans and dozens of others. 1:22:54 We have a store locator on our website that can help you find the the closest retailer to you. But we're in you know over 1500 about 1700 stores right now across the country and we're already getting some more wins under our belt right now for 2026. 1:23:10 And so we think that we're hopefully going to be in several more locally near whoever's listening by the time that this comes out. And you know, we hope to to continue growing on in the future. Yeah, I want to put a, a quick shout out for all of the hundreds of small independent natural food stores that carry us too, because they're awesome in many communities that don't have a large natural food store, they, you know, go out of their way to find the best products like ours. 1:23:37 And so, you know, definitely, if you're out there listening, support your local small business as well. We're a small business and so we feel like if anything we can do to support our small retailers as well, of which there are dozens and dozens all over the country that carry Fronen. Make sure you stop in those stores. 1:23:52 They, they often are, are the first to carry cool products like ours. And so if you're looking for the newest crunchy brand stuff, you know, make sure you support them too. And then of course, you know, we're happy you find us anywhere, but certainly we want to plug for all of our our, our wonderful independence that carry us all over the country. 1:24:10 Absolutely. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Well, we want to thank you guys so much for being on the show. We loved talking to you. No, thank you. We love talking to you. We have an awesome show. It's a natural format and I feel like we just got to really converse with each other and happy. Yeah, next time we're passing through the area, I'm calling you. 1:24:25 Oh, definitely. Please do. Please do. Thanks so much for listening. If you'd like to follow along with us, you can find us on Instagram at Crunchypod and at Unapologetically Crunchy. We have the same handles on Tiktok too. And check out our websites at crunchypod.com and unapologeticallycrunchy.com. 1:24:43 And if you have some tips and tricks you'd like to share with us, feel free to DM us or contact us on the website. And one more thing, if you love our podcast, please consider sharing with every single person you know who would love it and leave us a review. Oh, and you can tell them to read a review too. 1:25:01 We are so beyond grateful for your support. Thank you so much. Peace, love and crunch.

• ABOUT THIS GUEST

  George, a CPG investor and serial entrepreneur, and Brian, a food-obsessed growth operator, stepped in to lead Frönen after it’s early success and completely repositioned the brand from “dietary restriction” to “clean indulgence.” They’ve since rolled out high-performing SKUs, such as their Mango flavor, which is now the #3 best-selling SKU per store per week, while restoring trust with retailers and scaling strategically in a shrinking category.

  👀 you can find Frönen:
  + on the web eatfronen.com
  + on instagram @eatfronen
  + on facebook/eatfronen

👀 you can find us:

👂 listen on → spotify, apple podcasts, amazon music & iheartradio

🤩 follow along with us on our socials!
instagram → @crunchypod & @unapologeticallycrunchy 
& @raleighcrunchies
facebook → crunchypod

tiktok → @crunchypod
youtube → @crunchypod

📝 on the web → crunchypod.com

🛍️ shop merch → unapologeticallycrunchy.com

☮️ peace, love + CRUNCH!

😜🙏💜