Sound & Frequency Healing for the Nervous System and Overall Wellness with Avi Sherbill of SoundRx
#26 Sound & Frequency Healing for the Nervous System and Overall Wellness with Avi Sherbill of SoundRx
Sound is all around us…but have you ever stopped to consider how it shapes your nervous system, emotional state, and overall wellness?
Today, we have another great episode for you.
We’re talking with Avi Sherbill, founder of SoundRx, exploring the transformative benefits of sound healing and how it can become a powerful support for nervous system regulation, resilience and overall wellness.
We also chat about:
The ancestral and historical significance of sound in architecture, community and wellness practices
Practical ways to integrate sound healing into daily routines for both adults and children
Sound healing in education, emphasizing sensory engagement and developmental benefits for children
Considerations around the authenticity of frequency-based music on streaming platforms
The importance of training for sound healing practitioners and understanding proper methodology
And he shares general frequency recommendations for different conditions & so much more!
This episode is packed with insights and valuable tips to incorporate sound healing as a support in your journey.
Exclusive promo code: CRUNCHYPOD
Let’s tune in!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction & Why Sound Matters for the Nervous System
03:10 Avi Sherbill’s Journey to Discovering Sound Healing
08:58 Ancient & Ancestral Roots of Sound as Medicine
15:27 Modern Life, Architecture & Chronic Nervous System Stress
22:05 What Frequency Actually Is & How It Affects the Brain
27:00 High Stress, Cortisol & Living in Survival Mode
28:07 Where to Start with Sound Healing
32:47 Daily Sound Practices & Nervous System Regulation
36:10 Subtle vs Big Releases & How Healing Really Happens
43:50 What a Sound Bath Is & What to Expect
48:55 Sound, Cells & Physical Healing
54:46 Recommended Resources & The Healing Power of Sound
55:09 Finding Your Natural Tempo, BPM & Ideal Music
1:00:53 Heavy Metal, Punk & Matching Music to Emotional States
1:05:00 Easy Sound Tools for Busy People (Humming, Voice, Breath)
1:12:02 Sound, Voice & Emotional Expression
1:14:47 Using Sound with Kids, Parenting & Schools
1:22:05 Panda Drum, Instruments & Play-Based Regulation
1:28:26 Frequency Myths, Fabric Claims & Online Misinformation
1:51:47 Rapid Fire Frequencies, Final Reflections & Where to Find Avi
Mentions
Book: The Healing Power of Sound
Muse Headband (refer to Avi for a promo code)
The Disintegration Loops by William Basinski
Transcript
Speaker 3 (00:06) Welcome back to Unapologetically Crunchy. Sound is all around us, but have you ever stopped to consider how it shapes your nervous system, emotional state, and overall well-being? Today, we have another great episode for you guys. We're talking with Avi Sherbell, founder of SoundRx. Avi is a sound healer and an educator who helps people heal deep rooted trauma and physical patterns through evidence-based frequency healing. Using deconstructed music and pure sound, including singing bowls, gongs, and slow sound waves and vibrations, his work supports nervous system regulation, emotional stability, and deeply restorative states. Avi also trains and mentors sound healers, and he's dedicated to making these tools more accessible, practical, and effective for people who are seeking meaningful change. Today, we're exploring the transformative benefits of sound healing and how it can become a powerful support for regulation, resilience, and overall wellness. We also chat about the ancestral and historical significance of sound in architecture, community, and wellness practices. Practical ways to integrate sound healing into daily routines for both adults and children. Sound healing in education, emphasizing sensory engagement and developmental benefits for children. considerations around the authenticity of frequency-based music on streaming platforms, the importance of training for sound healing practitioners and understanding proper methodology. And he even shares general frequency recommendations for different conditions and so much more. This is such a good episode. It's packed with insights and actionable guidance. Honestly, we could have talked to Avi for hours. I've learned so much from his content. He is a trustworthy source and I highly recommend checking out his Instagram account. It's at get sound RX. He shares so much valuable information and he even links studies too. For those of you who would like to see the science behind sound healing, he also offers sound instruments and samples and he was kind enough to give us an exclusive offer for 10 % off any purchases with the promo crunchy pod. So let's tune in. So thank you so much for being on the show. I am very excited to have you on here. So I actually came across, I've been following along with you for two years, about two years probably. And it was when I started looking, well, I'm always looking into different like holistic wellness modalities. ⁓ but I had found out, ⁓ in January last year that I had some health issues arising from the root cause ended up being chronic high cortisol. So I came across sound frequency, your account. And I learned so much. swear like it's actually kind of changed the trajectory of my life because it's not only did I learn so much about like frequency and vibration through sound, but then I just kind of expanded on that and learned it through like so much more in a spiritual aspect. And it really changed my perspective in so many ways. And that really started with your content. So, so I'm really excited. Speaker 2 (03:10) Yeah, she's not kidding. She's been following you for long time myself as well and just love everything you're doing there and it really pushed us into a lot of different research that we've been doing lately. Speaker 1 (03:19) Yeah, I love that. love that. My hope is that when people engage with our account or our stuff, it kind of, yeah, turn some light bulbs on because sadly a lot of that information is not out there in the way that it could be and should be. So hoping to, ⁓ yeah, be a drop in the bucket. Speaker 3 (03:22) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, I wanted to make sure I told you that because you know, sometimes when we're going on and we're making content and it's just like you, want to, you want people to be impacted by it. So I'm like, I need to make sure I tell him that it has really impacted me in a good way. And that's why we wanted to share some of this information on the podcast. And I was like, obviously I'm going to reach out to Avi and see if he can come on. Cause that's who taught me about this. Speaker 1 (04:09) And can I ask you how is the court is all now? Speaker 3 (04:13) I'm definitely getting a lot better. ⁓ Also, I think it's kind of funny with, not funny, funny because it's so different in your 20s. We're in our early 40s now and Carl and I date nights are like sound baths now. Speaker 1 (04:28) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. It was actually just my 40th birthday and my wife got us a private sound bath. So yeah, I think it's, it's a little bit different than going out in your 20s for sure. Speaker 3 (04:43) Totally. And so you actually got into sound because you've always been drawn to music. You were in band, you were in music production, and that's kind of how you kind of geared towards medicine. There's some of your experience. I know you went through like a dark night of the soul, is it called, right? Speaker 1 (05:02) Yes, yes. So forever, music has always been a part of my life ever since I was really young and creating songs and things like that. And yeah, on the surface, things looked okay. But there's a lot of chaos in the home and things going on. And so music always became the thing that I turned to, you know, whether I was actually creating it or I know what your experience was like as a teenager, but church for me was just like sitting in a car listening to music, you know, and driving. so like things like that really were kind of the space where I really found myself. And so it just kind of became something that I was more and more interested in and was in bands and moved around a bit doing that. went to Colorado and ⁓ was in a band and with somebody for a long time. and then started working in production and that's kind of what brought me to LA and we're working on commercials and different things with production and I'm doing some shows and so I was always in that space and I even went to school for composition but nowhere in the schooling or in the environments that I was in did anybody speak about sound as medicine you know it was always in a much more at least in the school's ⁓ clinical understanding of what sound was doing and just how to create compositions. And so when we're working with sound, it's where you're deconstructing music down to its essence, which is a wave of vibration and then how it's influencing the body and the brain. And so that isn't really talked about in schooling and it's not really talked about. in creating music. mean, obviously, there's the effects you get from from listening to music, but rarely is the intention with having these certain effects on your body or your nervous system or on your cortisol levels. You know, it's it's just a byproduct. So so that was always my my love and the environment I was in. And then, yeah, like you're saying, it ⁓ went through a really dark period, actually, as things were getting better. outwardly, inwardly, I was really going through some very difficult, difficult times, just unhealed trauma, substance abuse, different things. And then it all kind of came to a head and I lost the work that I was doing. And I had really spent a lot, a lot of time kind of trying to get there. And then, ⁓ yeah, my subconscious pattern was to kind of blow it all up. And so created. that and then I just went through a very challenging ⁓ two or three years. So when I started to kind of come out of that and tried to go in a different direction through treatment and ⁓ other holistic modalities, somebody who I knew ⁓ said you should come to this sound healing. And so that was kind of the first time where I experienced ⁓ sound. being used in this way and I just I felt my entire body shift you know it was like ⁓ my anxiety my fatigue my pain levels just immediately changed and it just kind of made me really wonder like what was going on and and so it kind of ⁓ you know I have an addictive personality for sure so I just kind of became like tunnel vision and I just nerded out and then I trained pretty extensively in different areas around sound and frequency. And so that's kind of what started it off. Speaker 3 (08:58) I love that. It's cool how you always kind of have had that interest to even before you knew that it was medicine. Cause you also, I've also heard you mentioned before that you learned that some of your ancestors have a history with sound as well. Speaker 1 (09:16) Yeah, I you can go, I could go really far back, but my grandfather even, you know, worked in the record industry and I have a picture with him and like Ray Charles and his manager and things like that. And so, I mean, there's that, but if I go much, much farther back ⁓ in the temples in Jerusalem, so I'm Jewish, I come from this tribe of Levites. and the Levites in the temple in Jerusalem played the instruments. So they would be arranged playing trumpets, horns, ⁓ certain instruments at certain times of the year. so that is kind of, you know, if you go like ancestral background, that is kind of the story there. So, I mean, I think it's just like encoded in my DNA in certain way. Speaker 3 (10:05) Yeah, that's wild. Speaker 1 (10:09) Yeah, yeah. And I never pieced that together when I was younger. ⁓ I knew that kind of on the periphery, like I understood it kind of in a vague way. And then I got actually really into, ⁓ similar to a lot of ancient structures, they really used ⁓ certain harmonious ⁓ ratios to build the temples. I mean, this is true of Notre Dame and the Parthenon and and pyramids, they used golden ratio based dimensions to create a lot of their structures so that the room or the walls, the space would reverberate and resonate at certain frequencies. And so that's kind of what initially sparked my interest. And then I was looking into the Levites and I was like, I'm a Levi. And so then I just kind of put two and two together and. You can look online, there's amazing pictures of, if you just Google Levites in the temple in Jerusalem and you'll see there's, they're arranged playing certain instruments. so, yeah, that's kind of my own background for going thousands of years back. Speaker 3 (11:18) That's awesome. But it's also really interesting too, because I've read a lot of things where that was the whole point of bells and things like that in history. And then there's all the theories on why they are not here anymore, really. ⁓ Speaker 1 (11:33) Thank Speaker 2 (11:34) That was one that I brought up to you, right? Because that's I like to watch a lot of documentaries and read about ancient cultures and aliens and all that good stuff. You always there's common themes and you always see something around sound and energy and everything else. And as you look into some of the other figures in that space, know, Tesla and others, it becomes something hard to ignore. Right. I think I always thought of music makes me feel happy or music can make me feel mad, whatever it is. But if music has or sound has that type of impact on my mood, could it be more impactful to my actual body and mind? And then tying that up with what I learned about the ancient cultures says to me like, hey, sound has the ability to really heal your body. So I love that. Speaker 1 (12:20) And if you look at a lot of these people throughout history like Tesla ⁓ Lock like, you know, Royal Rife a lot of these people came out with these very innovative technologies using sound Using frequency and then they got their careers ruined and and they got really torn apart I mean Tesla died penniless, you know after coming up with so many brilliant ⁓ inventions. I mean, he could have transformed the way we use energy, you know, we wouldn't probably be paying energy bills. so there's a lot of these people throughout history. And then they the the powers, you know, whether it's pharmaceutical, whether it's the medical industry, whether it's it's governments kind of squash it. and so ⁓ yeah, and then I think in terms of sound, mean, there's endless ⁓ stories there, but I definitely think in terms of bells, I mean, you could look to Europe, you could look to Asia, you could look to South America. I mean, even when we were just in Portugal, there's bells everywhere. I mean, they're not always being sounded, but any any cathedral, mean, if you go a little farther back has a bell ⁓ attached to it. And it was kind of a time. it would signal a time of day or a time to gather, or it would, I think, really signal this sense of connection in a community and a gathering space. And I think the bells, as modernity kind of took over, the bells kind of fell away and they were no longer used or no longer built. And now we have alarms, like alarm clocks, we have notifications and we have all of these very ⁓ stimulating ways to remind us. But the bell is just it's so powerful. And when you see how bells were used in combination with prayer, I mean, there is ⁓ there's amazing ideas, especially with like the prayers creating the intention, and then the frequency of the bell lifts it into the atmosphere. And so this is something that is true even now with how we use frequency. You create the intention, whatever your intention is, and then you allow the frequency to create that momentum internally, externally. and a teacher of mine would say how the bell got turned upside down and now we use bowls. Like the bell became the bowl, and now we use bowls instead of how they once used. bells. But yeah, if you've ever seen the pictures with bells, I mean, they were everywhere. Yeah, it's just, it's it's amazing what happened. Speaker 3 (15:14) I know. I wish they were still here. Speaker 1 (15:16) Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:18) architecture built to reverberate and, know, produce that sound. It's, gone. All the nice detail, the intricacies, it's all gone. Speaker 1 (15:27) Yeah, I mean, we were just in Europe and you just you walk around and it's not just that. it's beautiful architecture. It's like you're stepping into the space of harmony. It's like a visual sense of harmony. And then the sound was also giving this sense of harmony sonically. And so there was all of these signals of harmony. It was like safety, harmony as you're kind of walking. And then of course, whatever you're experiencing externally is being replicated. internally. And so now we've lost that in our architecture. You know, everything is very bleak or very simple. And it's very square and angular and ugly. know? ⁓ Yeah, mean, just, yeah, homes themselves, they're just white all the time. You know, it's just plain white, like every time. So we've lost color, we've we've lost the sacredness and the architecture. Speaker 3 (16:11) Gray and white and. Speaker 1 (16:26) And I think the sound is the same thing where now a lot of times, like when people are interested in working with sound, they'll say, I don't have a background in music and, I don't know how to sing because we've all been conditioned to this idea that I have to be talented in order to use it, or I have to have this ability playing piano in order to experience it. And I think this is what's happened in many ⁓ different ways. We're actually coming up. with a post soon around how when in America when when there was slavery they actually banned the the slaves from using drums and and from using instruments, know because again it was used to gather and to resonate and to reverberate the collective and so, you know, we don't want that and so you remove that from from the group or from you know, I mean the slaves in this case Speaker 3 (17:26) That's wild. I'm so happy that this is starting to become like more talked about now and people are learning more just to kind of bring it back. ⁓ Speaker 2 (17:36) Yeah, same here. We've become out of tune with our own bodies at this point. Speaker 1 (17:42) Totally. And everybody understands it intuitively because sound is like the most vital part of life. mean, everybody loves it. It's just inherent because, I mean, if you were to just take music, everybody would say, I love music, you know, it's like the most one of the most important parts of life. And so you can say so many things with sound that you can't with words, you know, sound expresses so much that that language can't. And so that sound and music kind of became backgrounded where it's just, you know, it's something behind a show or it's something that you play in the background while you're driving or while you're doing something or, you know, to me is just kind of ⁓ this arc of how sound has traveled throughout history and where it's at now. ⁓ I not to keep going, like, just also, I watched this documentary on Diddy and seeing... how the industry that is music has become so corrupted and so demonic in so many ways. I mean, there's really like no other word for what that was. And then you're getting children listening to it with ears, and then the sounds are going from the ears to the auditory cortex, to the brain, to the emotional centers, to the memory centers. And it creates a certain feeling in the culture, you know? you see the way kids especially absorb it. so, yeah, just, I mean, imagine if we were to kind of move sound into, you know, ⁓ relevance and the importance that I think it should be, I think we would have a totally different culture. Speaker 3 (19:36) I do too. Cause yeah, so that's the thing too with the frequency with music, used to be mostly tuned to what is it? ⁓ forgot it's not 432 and now it's to 440. So yeah, I don't know why that would have gotten changed because 432 is a healing frequency, right? Speaker 2 (19:49) Right? Speaker 1 (19:57) So there. Yeah, I have some trouble with with that idea. I mean, I agree with you. 432 is definitely a healing frequency. 440 has also been shown to have to have benefits. ⁓ And so, you know, I do like to push back a little on that idea, ⁓ because there was a lot of different tunings used throughout history wasn't just 432. There's, you know, many different tunings that were going on and then they became standardized so that, you know, concert halls and orchestras could all play ⁓ alongside one another. But I definitely believe the spiritual component has been lifted and taken out of music. I mean, even when you look at classical composers, Bach in particular, I mean, these were deeply spiritual people. who had very difficult lives and turned to music as this sacred act of devotion. wasn't like, I'm gonna be on the billboards and see how amazing I am. know what mean? Obviously there was that also, but. Speaker 3 (21:07) Yeah, I love that though. I never really thought about it in that way, but it's so true. Speaker 1 (21:12) Yeah. Yeah. And when you look also at the structure of a lot of classical pieces, there's such greater complexity in how it was made. And now there's such a simple nature to how music is formed. Obviously, the digital component enhances it. But when you just like break it down, it's it's very simple. It's very plain. Like you can even see there's people online on YouTube where they show you how the same four chords are used in the Coldplay song and the Katy Perry song. you know, like they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they just transfer over the same chords, the same ideas, the same buildups. And it's it's it's like a plug and play that they that they use. so a lot of the complexity is gone the same way the arc in architecture. It's kind of disappeared in the music as well. Speaker 3 (22:05) That's wild. So for listeners that are new to sound healing, how would you explain what frequency actually is and why it matters for our bodies, in particular the brain and the nervous system? Speaker 1 (22:18) Mm hmm. Yeah, so so sound in order for you to experience sound you needed to travel through something like an instrument or maybe it may be a device and so you're you're taking energy that's existing everywhere and and then you're making it palpable where you perceive it where you experience it and so depending on on the frequency which is really just the amount of waves of energy per second, you know, it'll have different effects on the nervous system and different effects on the brain. So when the brain takes in, for instance, four hertz or eight hertz, tends to really slow the brain waves down, tends to stimulate more of the relaxation response in the nervous system. And then as you increase the waves, let's say you get to 500 hertz, it tends to energize or stimulate the body a bit more because it's just sonic information. It's waves of energy, it's information. So the brain and the body have to make sense of the information that's happening. And so when we're working with frequency, we really want to pay attention to when we're using sound in this way, frequency in this way, we want to pay attention to what effect is it having on the body, on the nervous system. on the brain. And so for everybody, it's different because I'll work with people where they have kids who are neurodivergent or autistic. And so you'll use sound in a particular way. If you have a four year old, you use sound in a particular way because their attention span is pretty short, you know, so ⁓ but then for for adults will also use it in in a different way. And I would say for adults, what's really helpful is that sound at certain rates can downshift the brainwave states and move them into their subconscious, where a lot of patterns and beliefs are held. And so when you move into the subconscious, you're able to actually repattern neural pathways for new beliefs, new ideas, new opportunities that they want in life, because most of what's guiding life is the subconscious. And so the same time that it's doing that, the sound is moving throughout the nervous system, you know, because we think we just hear with our ears, but our ears are actually a lot more for balance and for movement and how we orient to space and time. So when we're taking in sound in this way, it can allow us to move into the subconscious and we're able to repattern reprogram a lot of long held ⁓ beliefs. And then also it's inducing a sense of safety. into the nervous system. And most people, especially in this age that we are in, this age of overwhelm and we're inundated with so much information, people are in a survival response just from life itself. And kind of like you were saying earlier, it's like, and I experienced it with myself, you don't even realize you're stressed until something's going on, until it's kind of like the light is blinking on in the car and you're like, I have an issue, you know, there's something going on because the nervous system in particular, and that was like one of the really important areas ⁓ in studying for me is the nervous system and its relationship to the sound, because sound can stimulate this relaxation and cause an opening throughout the nervous system where the nervous system tends to hold on and it tends to create a lot of pressure. but then the nervous system just adapts to this new way of being. So I'm stressed, but now my baseline changes. And so I'm just a little stressed and I'm operating up here. And then you continue to operate up here until, ⁓ wow, I have this autoimmune issue or, wow, I have high cortisol levels or, wow, I'm like experiencing fatigue and burnout. Like I can't even get out of bed and function in the way that I used to, which is like, you know, things that I hear all the time. So, ⁓ So sound can be this beautiful way of working with a lot of these issues without words, without language, and it's very passive, you know, you're just receiving it. And then it's moving through almost like an adaptogen and kind of reorganizing restructuring areas of the nervous system that are going to be different for each person. Speaker 2 (27:00) You just answered a lot of questions I was going to ask you. We operate at such a high level of stress just on a daily basis and it's almost has become like a badge of honor. I can operate in a high stress situation or in a high stress environment. And I think that's just, I mean, that's bull, right? Speaker 1 (27:03) Okay. Speaker 2 (27:18) We got to take better care of ourselves and lower that baseline so that we're not just reacting whenever the light starts blinking. But, know, I think sound as medicine is great, but I want to ask you, bear with me on this question. So somebody who is high cortisol, high stress anxiety, you know, hasn't found any support or wants to get away from pharmaceuticals or something like that and want to try sound. What would you suggest them to do first? like, what would you ask them to like look for as far as like how the frequency should feel in their body and you know, how they should react to the situation? Like would you say, I'll give you an example, would you say go to a sound bath and try to really relax and almost meditate? Or would you suggest something different to kind of break somebody into sound therapy? Speaker 1 (28:07) Good question. Yeah, and it is hard in that way because I guess a sound bath would be one of those things that's kind of like a one size fits all, you know, so it's like a nice general approach where it's like, go take a sound bath and you know, the practitioner is good, it should be pleasing and relaxing and perhaps even deeper, open things up in a way that they hadn't been able to before. Speaker 2 (28:08) I think sure everybody's different, right? Speaker 1 (28:37) So there's that, but I always feel like taking things little by little, know, oftentimes people try to counter the issue that was going on with the same approach that got them there, you know? So it's like, I'm rushing and I'm, you know, doing all of the things. So now I'm dealing with these issues, but let me try to do all of the things, you know, to figure out what's been happening. Speaker 2 (29:04) Yeah. Speaker 3 (29:05) I went through that. Speaker 1 (29:07) Yeah, and so you could see and it's one of those things that I think sometimes and I've you know met with functional medicine Doctors and things like that and sometimes they're looking at things and they're finding things But that doesn't mean that it's the root cause you know And that's one of those things that creates this kind of loop because they'll say mold Parasite, you know, and there's these things that are there but they're also there for a lot of other people that aren't experiencing those same issues. So I feel like usually underneath a lot of these things is chronic stress. I would say for adults in this time period that we are in, without generalizing, I think a lot of people are dealing with ⁓ chronic stress. And oftentimes there could be, of course, these traumatic events. They get into a bad car accident. They had, you know, been abused, those sort of things. A lot of people just have chronic low level stressors that are existing throughout the day that just sort of compound. And then they haven't had an ability to break from that. And so to me, taking in sound like even a little bit in the morning, using certain frequencies in the morning, at night, humming in the afternoon, doing these sort of things that orient you to a place of safety and connection, where you might be used to orienting from a place of overwhelm and hypervigilance. So any things that any activity, any sound that is going to kind of induce that state to me is going to be helpful. So I feel like there's the soundbath you could do on a weekend. And then there's also the more targeted approach. of using certain sounds in the morning, certain sounds in the afternoon, certain sounds at night, because sound at a sound bath most likely will induce alpha and theta brainwave activity, which is really powerful for again, working with the subconscious, but you don't want to be listening to theta frequent theta, let's say, binaural beats in the middle of the day, because they found too much theta brainwave activity in the frontal lobes in particular. can be associated with ADD and ADHD. So it actually creates like an inability to focus during the day. So you don't want to just kind of go into that, almost like dissociative state in the middle of the day. But there are certain sounds that can be energizing, but from a place of connection, where you're not, you know, jittery. So something I was even talking about with somebody I was working with, ⁓ they're like a high performance athlete and we're talking about the music that they listen to. They listen to just very intense music and a high BPM. And I was saying like, seeing how it would feel to even cut down that BPM, which is like the beats per minute, how quick the music is by half. instead of working with music that's at 100, 120 BPM, see how your body moves at 60 BPM. because I'm sure you'll still get all of the movement done, but you'll be so much more in your body and it won't be the, sort of feeling. so, you know, everything depends. I'm probably not giving a great answer here, but you know, it depends on the time of day, what's going on and how you want to be in that moment. Speaker 3 (32:47) Yeah, no, that's a great answer. It's just basically just like easing in like baby steps and just being aware of what time it is because that makes complete sense. It's like you don't want to drink coffee at two or after two. Speaker 1 (33:00) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (33:03) dive into it with intention. Slow and steady but intentionally and then you'll find the result. Speaker 1 (33:05) A hundred Yeah, you know, there's that great book by Dr. Bruce Lipton, the biology of belief, I think. ⁓ But, you know, he talks about in there, like, how much benefit placebo effect has on people. know, placebo is the intention, it is the belief. And so if you go into something with that belief, it kind of creates itself, and then the sound is almost like that added movement into that belief into that pattern. And so I think, yeah, 10 minutes in the morning of grounding yourself taking in sunlight listening to certain things, and then choosing mindfully, like, what sonic environment am I exposing myself to, and finding that kind of like, energizing, but not overstimulating sound. And then in the evening, kind of similar, like winding down with that. And You know, that's amazing. then obviously if you want to use instruments like tuning forks or bowls that maybe somebody has available to them are great, but you can also do internal sounds like a physiological sigh, humming, know, the certain just tones ⁓ create a lot of these effects as well. Speaker 3 (34:27) Great, yeah. Speaker 2 (34:28) always like the idea of humming and trying to do that throughout the day. I don't do it as much as I should, but I think it's great idea. And if for nothing else, it kind of stops you from overthinking too. Put you down in that regard. Speaker 1 (34:39) Yeah, we, we have this great product by Muse that we kind of partner with where it's a headband. And part of what it does is it helps induce some of that alpha theta brainwave activity. But you can also just monitor ⁓ your brainwave activity while you're using it. And so before I had it, I was imagining, okay, I hum and then kind of like the research says, like, okay, five minutes in. you start to get that alpha theta brainwave activity. But after using it on myself and other people, it's almost like in 30 seconds, it starts to happen. And and so when you're going into those states, part of what happens is your TPM, your thoughts per minute get cut in half as well. So that's why a lot of times we experience a lot cleaner and clear line of thoughts or thinking because the thoughts of you know, greatly reduced, Speaker 3 (35:39) Right. Carl always says that when he hums that he can't think. Speaker 1 (35:43) Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm with you. It's it's almost like a jog where whatever issue you had before you go jogging, you don't have after. It's similar to like humming and these sort of practices. It's like, yeah, like, I don't know what was wrong. Yeah, whatever the problem was at that moment. Yeah. Speaker 3 (36:04) sudden it's not a big deal. Speaker 2 (36:06) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (36:08) It probably isn't a big deal. Speaker 3 (36:10) Exactly. We're just in a dream. That's what I always tell myself. I'm like, this doesn't really matter. We're just living a dream. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So what are some common signs that someone would experience when they are exposed to a sound frequency that really resonates with their wellbeing? Of course, calmer thoughts, but is there anything like physical or anything else that's pretty common that you hear people say? Speaker 1 (36:38) Yeah, so the same way we're talking right now, I'm using my words, I'm using my voice to signal certain ideas or certain thoughts. But there's also something that I talk about in trainings, which are the somatic signals, which is how your body is talking. And these are things that we're not as attuned to and don't pay attention to as much. And so there's a lot of subtle things that happen. that you may not have noticed because it's not something you're paying attention to in your day to day. ⁓ But a lot of things happen internally and then get expressed through the soma through the body. So I mean, a very common thing that I hear, especially when I apply let's say bowls on the body and you see it is the diaphragm opens up a lot and the diaphragm tends to contract from stress. from tension and so the diaphragm tends to kind of be in the state of of tightness and so I'll notice just from I'll place the bowl and I lift the bowl and then the breathing goes a much deeper breath. And sometimes beforehand, their breathing is occurring in the chest, there's, you know, it's like, usually like a sign that they're holding on, they're still bracing in some way. And so you'll see the breathing start to change, the body temperature will change sometimes where it sometimes gets much warmer, sometimes much colder, you know, because sometimes when there's a big shift into like a deep parasympathetic state, there's a temperature change in the body as well. So the body just how cool or how warm it is, the way the breathing is. And then I also find there's sometimes these releases, sometimes big, sometimes small, sometimes there's twitching, like nervous energy being released, like, ⁓ like involuntary spasms or movements that occur. Because sometimes I see like people's legs kind of move or, you know, Yeah. And then and afterwards, they're like, I didn't even notice that or sense that that was happening. And then you'll see kind of the muscles and the face relax, you know, and so you'll see there's just kind of this opening and there's this like releasing effect. And so all of these small signals that are happening, it's actually really it's like teaching the body how to be with itself. The difficulty after that is we tend to then go back into our old patterns, you know, like we'll walk in a certain way, our posture, our breathing, kind of like reverts back to that old pattern. And so this is where repeated exposure and to me, I think like daily small practices really help. Because it helps teach your body, almost like a physical therapist, you know, it teaches your body how to kind of move in time and space. And so your body's really used to rushing and to kind of like contracting. And, you know, like they talk about tech neck, you know, where you kind of like hunch over a lot. Yeah. And so it's like, bringing the posture back, and kind of moving in an aligned and kind of like really clean way. All of these things are signaling you're in that slow down state of connection. And so you know, there's things that happen in the moment, but then also, also after as well. Like, like I was saying, I struggled with addiction for years and something when I was in my addiction, my mom would always try to correct is I was always hunched over, which is usually like a posture of shame. And so I was kind of hunched over and my mom would always tell me to like correct my posture. Then when I got sober, but Speaker 3 (40:38) Yeah. Speaker 1 (40:42) even more so when I really changed how my nervous system was interpreting reality. Just as a byproduct, my posture became so much straighter. My breathing changed, you know, because I was in the world. was a you know, because when the parasympathetic state gets turned on, our ability to engage socially and connect with others also gets turned on. So I wasn't turning away. wasn't like crouched down, like I was ashamed of myself. But I was actually open and I was present in the world. So there's all a lot of small, subtle things that happen in sessions and out of sessions. And sometimes I think people get, especially facilitators, they get attracted to these big releases. Yeah. Like, I want to see this big change, you know, or, like, we're gonna work for two weeks, and everything is going to change. You see it a lot online, you know, it's like, after working with me for two weeks, know, this person's whole reality changed and yeah, that, that, that, that, but there's ⁓ obviously like that, that dopamine hit from scene. And then you're like, I got to work with that guy. But there's a lot of beauty in the small subtle shifts that happen throughout the day. And, just how we're orienting to life that aren't as easily ⁓ shown or proven on Instagram reel. But to me, when all of those things change, you change, the way you parent changes, ⁓ the entire world changes because what's happening internally has shifted. Speaker 3 (42:23) Absolutely. I couldn't agree more too with the small subtle shifts because you're right like a lot of people think like it's just gonna happen like that because that's kind of the world that we live in right now is instant gratification and it does it takes time and Also, like you were mentioning to their old plasticity is basically what is happening in the brain and that is based on repeating repeating repeating So this it makes total sense my I have the same thing that you were mentioning with my breathing I was actually just doing that this morning. My breathing shifts massively when I start to get into that state. And also I yawn a lot. Speaker 1 (43:03) Mm-hmm. Well, yawning is great. I mean, for the most part, unless you're yawning too much, I guess that could also be a signal of something. Yeah, but yawning is usually a sign that the nervous system is resetting, you know, or there's been like a deep release. And so oftentimes it's like there's a lot of pressure mounting and then you're... Speaker 2 (43:24) Hmm. Speaker 1 (43:25) you know, it kind of like the nervous system wants to reset. I mean, you see dogs do this too, after they get up, it's like they'll get up and then they'll yawn. And so yeah, think yawning is great. I love to see after like sound healing sessions, people just like yawn a lot, which is great, you know. Speaker 3 (43:42) Totally. So for somebody who hasn't been to a sound bath before, can you walk us through what that experience is like? Speaker 1 (43:50) Yeah, so a sound bath in just kind of a general way is where a person's going to take in sound that's usually coming from crystal bowls or Himalayan bowls. Sometimes there's a gong, sometimes there's chimes, but the person is coming in, they're laying down. And then the facilitator is usually moving them through opening practices that kind of allow the body to slow down a bit, almost like primes the body gets the body ready to receive the sound. And it puts the body into a much more receptive state of what's about to happen. And then the person, you know, perhaps there's a meditation breathing, toning, anything at the beginning, and then they move them into the sound of the crystal bowls and or the gong. And these instruments, these are multi-frequency instruments. So there's a lot of sound that is being produced by these instruments. And what happens is it creates these naturally occurring binarial beats. And so it is like the sound is ping ponging throughout the room and it starts to slowly shift the state of the brain and also the nervous system. And then people tend to move out of their normal conscious state. normal linear rational thinking and move into a dream state. And in that dream state, there's a repairing that occurs in the nervous system and also in the brain. And so people are processing things somatically, neurologically, and it is happening in a way that is meant for them because each person is going to, the sound is going to move where it needs to for each person. And so it'll travel through their nervous system and really bring the body back to homeostasis where a lot of the repair happens. So the body can't really repair itself if it's in a survival state. And so you need to drop the body down into that state to begin. And so then you take that journey through that experience and then hopefully the facilitator brings them back and allows them for that integration where they're processing and kind of bringing into completion whatever they had experienced. But for some people, like I've seen working in mental health, working in addiction and just some ⁓ more severe cases, sometimes people are moving through some really deeply traumatizing episode. And a lot of what we call trauma is a person's inability to process or integrate an experience that happened to them. They didn't have the capacity to. And so a lot of times sound is inducing a state that allows them to process and integrate a moment or an episode that they have been through in life that's probably causing some deep effect in how they are in their. life and their world and their body. Speaker 3 (47:10) It's so wild. It's just like, sometimes when you're going through this, you think you need like this huge complex healing plan, but sometimes it's just the simple things. Speaker 1 (47:19) Mm hmm. Yeah. And I also feel especially online, it's, it's, it appeals to that anxious part of us, that thing we need, like to totally change every aspect of our life. And we get very neurotic with it, you know, and again, it's like we're bringing the same mindset that we had that caused the issue to the healing of the issue. Speaker 2 (47:20) in. Speaker 1 (47:47) And so I do think like approaching things really simply is helpful for a lot of people who over complicate things and intellectualize a lot of their problems. Speaker 3 (47:59) do, I agree too. Speaker 2 (48:00) agree with that simplifying is is the key right and this high working with such high levels of stress it can you know cause immune problems a lot of other issues even cognitive function problems and I know like sound as a vibration like on the on the flip side I guess we're kind of getting there but it can actually help you repair yourselves and I think that's kind of saying hey it's putting you back into that that state of homeostasis like letting your body be what it actually is and use the power it has to help repair and heal itself. And through some of the content I've read of yours and other research, you know, I definitely feel I'm interested in like, how does sound influence cells to repair themselves or like how can, for example, a certain frequency help you sort of detoxify your brain or remove toxins from your brain, know, something like that. Speaker 1 (48:55) Yes, I mean, the cells are interesting because just how many cells we have, know, trillions and billions of neurons. So mean, it's like, there's a lot that the sound is interacting with. And so there's the the cell walls that can change because stress and, you know, toxic I mean, there's a lot of toxic things that the body takes in and it causes the cell walls to change. And so you see in images that the cell walls when the body is stressed or there's toxic overload, it looks like ⁓ disorganized and incomplete and like a blob almost. And you see just after sometimes an hour of taking in sound, the entire structure of the cell walls change. And then you see like parasites and toxic like debris being taken out of the cell. if it's occurring in one cell, it's occurring in all of the cells. And then there's the mitochondria that it's also helping with, you the powerhouse and even down to there's, I think it was 2017 research done through biomedical engineering researchers at Columbia University, where they found the primary cilia, the antennas on top of the cells, that they actually, they move, they vibrate on all the cells. And when the body is stressed, they move almost like tuning forks really quickly, because that's what the body does. It either goes into that state of hypervigilance or survival response. And so they found that these little antennas on top of the cells, that they actually respond to sound and then they start to slow down. And so that will slow down and they'll change the health of the cells and also allow for the body's natural repair system to operate in its most optimal way because if there's like cancer cells but the entire body's out of whack, then the healthy cells can't mount an attack on the cancer cells. And this is why they say cancer doesn't appear in the body overnight. know, somebody gets a diagnosis of lung cancer. It's not like, wow, in the last week, you got lung cancer. No, you got lung cancer, cancer cells building, creating these symptoms that were then diagnosed over a period of 10, 15 years. Yeah. And so this is why, you know, I don't like to always say that we're going to cure something, you you got to be really careful with the words that that you use. But I will say that it will put the body in a state that will allow for its repair system to operate in the most optimal way So that it'll prevent a lot of those things that if not addressed Will create these more terminal issues and and so yeah, and and and you know There's a great book the healing power of sound by by dr. Gainer another figure if you want to go down a rabbit hole looking into ⁓ what happened to Dr. Gainer's. Yeah, so. ⁓ Speaker 3 (52:13) I'm gonna it today. Speaker 2 (52:14) Yeah, we'll definitely go down that rabbit hole. Speaker 1 (52:16) Yeah, so the book is amazing. And he's a researcher and doctor and he worked with a lot of terminally ill patients, cancer patients and used the voice and use crystal bowls and was just so ahead of his time ⁓ at addressing these things and in a holistic way but through, you know, the system, essentially, you know, and, yeah, and then died and it was said to be a suicide, but ⁓ a lot of people who knew him, you know, had had another story ⁓ of what happened to him. And so again, it's these figures that try to create change and try to create this big momentum against the pharmaceutical industry that's prescribing everybody everywhere. And and and man, the kids in particular. And then like I was saying, I worked in addiction for for a while when I was starting this. not to get too off course, but the amount that gets prescribed to people who have a problem with pills, and then they give them pills, because that's what their insurance allows for and how the treatment center gets paid. And so the idea that perhaps instead of giving, ⁓ you know, people who are trying to recover from drugs, more drugs, And instead of giving kids, ⁓ you know, methamphetamine light so that they can pay attention to more, we had these ways of recalibrating their nervous systems in a really natural way. I mean, that would just change the way humanity looks. And so I think this doctor was on the forefront of a lot of that. And when you see videos, this is a man who was inspired and you know filled with life and joy and then to all of a sudden have committed suicide is insane. And so he's just a great person and somebody who my teacher worked under. he's just I always recommend that book, The Healing Power of Sound is a great resource and very, very easy to read as well. Speaker 3 (54:34) that's so great to know. was actually going to ask you about resources. So that's awesome. And I really, I'm going to get that because that is right up my alley. It sounds very interesting. Speaker 1 (54:44) Yeah, it's a great book. Yeah. Speaker 3 (54:46) I do have a question. So Carl and I talked about this actually a couple months ago. You, I think you posted on your Instagram how everyone has kind of their own natural tempo sort of like frequency that you really kind of resonate the best with. Speaker 2 (55:05) for today to ask how do we figure that out? Yeah. Speaker 1 (55:09) Yeah, so there's ⁓ a way of measuring that where it is either through ⁓ walking or through tapping. And then you divide that and you turn that into a BPM to find what is the music that you should be listening to. Because oftentimes, again, it's one of those things where we don't always think of the music or the sound that I'm listening to as really influencing how I am or how I'm operating. ⁓ But, you know, it's amazing. Like there's the BPM and then there's also a way of looking at sound in terms of elements. And so sometimes we need more earth elements in what we're listening to or sometimes we need more of like a watery element. So if you ever like listen to music that's created, let's say on a beach in Hawaii or beach in California, it has a very certain rhythm. is a very certain pulse to it. It feels watery, you know, when you listen to like, quote unquote beach music or like, you know, that that sort of vibe. And so sometimes when somebody is like, ⁓ very fiery, or they've got a lot of energy, and they're like a goer and a doer and a pusher, they have a lot of fire in them. So they actually need more of a water element in their music. And the same way that some somebody could be very ethereal. and kind of like up in the clouds and sometimes they need like much more earth music, much more grounding music. So there's that, but then in terms of finding your body's natural tempo, yeah, it's just a practice where you tap and then you divide it or you could do it through walking and then you convert that into BPMs. then, I mean, the probably easiest way is just look up that BPM in Spotify, just using a resource everybody has. ⁓ And you'll find hopefully that that is something that really Sets the tone or the rhythm, you know, because I think a lot of people listen to Music that hypes themselves up a little too much ⁓ You know, but I mean people could also listen to music that probably hypes themselves down too much You know, and it's like a little too mellow and so there's kind of like finding music that's at your body's natural tempo that can really ⁓ you know, be a game changer. We're working on something in relation to like food with this as well because something you see a lot of in restaurants is there's certain music that gets played in restaurants that tends to move people more into that sympathetic charge. And so it's kind of like intense, but you're eating and you want your body more in a rest day to digest the food. And so there's also like a really conscious way of using sound and music in those settings as well. Like the right music for when you're eating even, I find is ⁓ really helpful, you know? Speaker 2 (58:17) Alright, so Marguerite, we're going to try this. Speaker 3 (58:19) That's, yeah, that's also fascinating. I never thought about that while you're eating and things that's make so much sense. It's really interesting too, because I went to ⁓ somebody who did accutonics on me and she told me I need more of like earth elements. So it's interesting that you say that. Speaker 1 (58:38) Yeah, yeah. If you listen to music through that lens, it really kind of opens things up, because you'll feel certain music has a really fiery element to it. And kind of like makes you move and go. I mean, just like off the cuff. I'm thinking of like ACDC, you know, something like that is kind of going to push you. But then there's that sort of like, yeah, music I find from Hawaii has a really like watery. element to it and things like that even like Jack Johnson if you remember him like that kind of like and it's like a very mellowy kind of water like element and then there's some people where it's like very grounded very Earthy and so I think finding that but also using certain BPMs to me like a gold standard of BPMs is 60 60 BPM It's what a lot of Baroque music which is like a period of classical music as put at, it's tends to be in rhythm with our heart, you know, and, and rhythm with our, our body and how it kind of wants to move. And so, you know, cause sometimes people want, ⁓ or reach out to me with like certain issues. And I oftentimes will recommend listening to like 60 B like literally look up on Spotify music at 6 D BPM. And it's also used a lot in high stress clinics as well. like they'll use music that's set at 60 BPM. So I think you could use the practice that I, you were mentioning that's on my Instagram. and see how it feels like, when I listen to 70 PPM, how am I feeling? And then when I bring it down and then when I listened to like this type of music, when I'm eating, I love listening to music when I'm eating personally. And I find like certain types of jazz, just like I really, I like are like best for me. ⁓ There's a story of this amazing composer, Ryuichi Sakamoto, where anytime he would go into a restaurant, he would bring the music to play when he was eating, because he didn't want to listen to the music that was in the restaurant. So I think not to be like that intense about it, but you know. Speaker 3 (1:00:53) I love it. What do you think about heavy metal? Speaker 1 (1:00:56) Uh-huh. mean, you know, my feeling is every music matches the frequency that somebody needs in a particular moment, right? And sometimes we need that heavy metal because it's like matching that that level that we want to be at or like that we're at, you know, because that that question actually I've I've been asked a lot because people will sometimes be like thinking Well, heavy metal shouldn't, you we shouldn't listen to heavy metal, but I actually think it can be really helpful. Like when you look at teenagers, for instance, teenagers, let's say they listen to like really intense music and it's like, oh, I don't want my teenage to listen to that, but it's actually matching where they're at. Like that's what they need for that release, for that frequency to match where they're at. You know, and that's what I saying. It's like, you don't always need to listen to like super mellow music and healing frequencies and crystal bowls. you know, to heal yourself because sometimes you need like, you know, you that like intensity and that fire to match what you're going into or like where you're wanting to be, you know, so like before I do certain things, I like do certain movements that would probably look crazy to somebody and I listen to like really intense music sometimes as well. Because it like puts me in that state, you know, where I'm just, I'm like, operating at that level. I don't need to be too like, you know? Speaker 2 (1:02:29) Now heavy metal for me has always been one of those. like, I don't listen to it all the time, not exclusive to it, but there's times where I want it. I know how it's going to make me feel and it really gets me in that right, that right spot for whatever it is I'm doing. Speaker 1 (1:02:43) And when do you listen to it? when do you feel like, ah, I need, uh, I don't know what you're listening to, Pantera Metallica or it's like something. Speaker 2 (1:02:52) No, it's a, it's a great question. Now, some of it's some, some pretty good screen music, right? Heavy bass and know, fast guitars, but anytime I'm going, like if I'm getting ready to do some yard work or something like that, like that, or even though if I'm getting ready to go into a big meeting, it helps me. It like just gets me to whatever calmness or whatever state I need to be in where I can. be my best in that situation. So I do like to throw it on before meetings or other events like that. Speaker 1 (1:03:25) Yeah, no, I'm right with you. The first music that really like lit me up was punk music and was going to punk shows. I mean, that was like my first time where I was like, whoa, that was something. And so... Speaker 2 (1:03:40) When you see it live, you come out of it and invigorated sometimes. That's how I feel anyway, because you can feel it. know, there's just the energy of the crowd. just really makes me feel, for me, it makes me feel good. Speaker 1 (1:03:51) Yeah, yeah, exactly. And this kind of like goes back to what I was saying where it's like, it's not a one size fits all. And even different times a day and for different purposes, you know, to me, it's just kind of looking at sound through the lens of it being medicinal, you know, and then it's almost like, you know, you don't want to take a CBD gummy. you know, at the wrong time and you're too mellow, you know, and you don't want to drink coffee at 2 p.m. Everything in the right way at the right time, I think is really important. I just think sound has been backgrounded and seen as something unimportant in a way when it could be one of the most important things, you know, in our life. Speaker 3 (1:04:35) I totally agree. Speaker 2 (1:04:37) Yeah, like many things we've kind of lost sight of what really helps. Yeah. Speaker 1 (1:04:41) Yeah, I mean, we're speaking about sound, this could be applied to food and water. mean, anything that, you know, but yeah, 100%. Speaker 3 (1:04:50) Totally. So for somebody who has like a really busy schedule, what are some really easy ways for them to incorporate sound into their lives? Speaker 1 (1:05:00) Yeah, I think a really common thing, especially early on in the healing journey is, is we kind of shame ourselves into not doing all of the things that we should be doing. And, you know, we tell ourselves, I'm going to meditate every morning, and then a month goes by and you never meditate. And, and, and so I feel like making it bite size and approachable and things that you can do, especially, I'll get to your question, but especially with kids. like I think kids it's so nice when you introduce sounds to them. But it doesn't need to be that they're laying in a sound bath, like, you could just place in sounds and ask them how it feels like, you know, how does your body feel when you're like moving to this? And how does this make you feel? You know, like, because kids are like the most vibrational beings that there ⁓ are, they're so in tune there. You know, if, if you see it's like the brainwave activity of kids, especially in that age, the three, four, five, six, they're in a dream state, you know, they're in that like really, like beautifully like receptive state. And so I think it can be so helpful to just show kids like I'll show them even like, I play a bowl or I play a drum. And then I say like, put your hand right there. Like, how does that feel? It's like, it feels crazy. I really like it, you know, or it sounds really good. And it starts to get them in tune with like, sound as this big important aspect of our life and not just something, you know, behind a Cocoa Melon show. And so I think that's really nice in terms of just adults and people throughout the day that are busy. I would say humming like we just ⁓ spoke on can be really amazing. I mean, when you see its benefits with nitric oxide levels and how much it increases, which oxygenates the blood and really opens up the blood vessels. ⁓ Really helpful, just antiviral, antibacterial, really, really nice. I would also say tuning it, I would say a lot of voice related things if you're just kind of, ⁓ you don't have instruments and you don't have access to like you know, lot of like frequencies and things like that. ⁓ Just using the voice in certain ways. There's a practice that we do around turning into whatever you're going through, whatever you're experiencing, turning that into a sound with the voice. And so sometimes the voice just wants to... But then sometimes like I've worked with kids... kids sometimes with stuttering issues or anger issues and things like that and I have them try to access that anger or access what you're feeling. Speaker 2 (1:07:53) HMMMM Speaker 1 (1:07:56) And so sometimes doing that like releasing what you're feeling from the body like women in particular I find have this very ⁓ Difficult relationship with expressing anger and so sometimes like releasing You know, and releasing like that anger from your body through your voice through your body is really beautiful, you know, and so sometimes just tuning into that can be really nice. And then if you have tuning forks, those can also be really helpful. ⁓ And tuning forks at certain points on the sternum beneath the collarbone, gallbladder 20, nox put or behind nox put. These are really nice places to stimulate the vagus nerve. You know, so throughout the day, I mean, you could even tap these areas really, but the vibration in particular is really nice. So like humming and tuning forks. And then like I was saying, just consciously listening to certain sounds at certain times of day. So like the right sounds at night, the right sounds in the morning, the right sounds when you're eating, I find just will really get you on the path. Speaker 3 (1:09:08) So I love how you were just saying that about the anger and the huh, because I do network spinal analysis It's a form of chiropractic. like this was last Monday, she was telling me like, it's chaotic right now. It's during the holidays. If you're frustrated or anything, you sound go into the bathroom and just like cough. She was like cough a lot. She was like the sound and releasing that is that will help you. So it's crazy how you just said that because I'd never heard that before. Of course, humming and chanting, but I never would think to go and do that. So that's awesome. Speaker 1 (1:09:46) Yeah, go ahead, Carl. Speaker 2 (1:09:48) I was just thinking a really great idea for children too. We encourage our kids to speak up and just say exactly how they feel. No judgment, you don't have to be right or wrong, but what are you feeling? But to encourage them to make a sound that they feel, or how they're feeling, I think is an awesome idea. Speaker 3 (1:10:06) It totally is. Speaker 1 (1:10:08) And kids do it intuitively, and they kind of unlearn, like they learn that they shouldn't be doing that in a way, you know, through school, through the home, whatever it is. And so, I mean, you know, there's a lot you could say about the times that we're in. But I do think a beautiful thing that's happening, especially with parenting is there's a lot more conscious parenting that goes on, you know, during Thanksgiving, we watched a movie, it was like the parent trap from the 60s. The way the parents talked to the kids was like from the middle ages. It was like, I couldn't even believe that was, you know, not that long ago. And so I think like really allowing the kids to feel in their body and feel like that freedom of expression, you know, because when you release the voice from the body, it also shows up in how the kid communicates, because the kid feels safe. He feels in his body and a lot of experiences. especially early on with the nervous system, create kind of the blueprint for how it interacts with the world. And so when you shut down the experience, shut down the experience, shut down the experience, the nervous system learns that it's not safe. It arranges you physiologically in a certain way. So I think just like allowing that freedom in the opening, like last night, my daughter was doing vocal fry just in the car and she was like, I was like, that's so great, you know, because vocal fry lubricates your mucus membrane, it's actually really healthy for you. And her brother was just sick. So I feel like she intuitively, just like understood to do that. And I was like, you know, she's just she gets it. And so instead of being like, you know, can you be quiet back there? Being like, that's so great. You know, I like keep doing that, I think is also really important. Speaker 3 (1:12:02) I do too. I agree with that so much. I try, we try and do that with our kids too, which ⁓ one of the things too that we've mentioned on the, that we've mentioned a lot here is humming. And that's something that we, we try and do it ourselves, but we also try to kind of, I don't want to say program, but kind of instill that into our kids at a young age too, with trying to regulate their emotions, which sometimes is really hard in the moment, but. afterwards, you know, after a temper tantrum or something, because I kind of want them to, of course, deep breaths too, but handle things in that kind of way. Speaker 1 (1:12:40) Yeah, yeah. There's another thing we learned actually from this like kids book around emotions, which is having especially with our four year old is like a dragon's breath. Can you breathe like a dragon and he'll go, you know, which is really nice or blow out the candles, you know, so it's like, so anytime he's kind of like, you know, kind of getting riled up and, know, usually about to fight with his sister. So we'll do some like Dragon breaths or blowing out the candles or you know the different things. So yeah Speaker 2 (1:13:12) Dragon Breath is a good one right now in our world. It's good to blow out the candles when they're smaller, Dragon Breath will be, that'll catch on. Speaker 1 (1:13:16) out of here. Yeah, no, our six year old, she looks at me like I'm just ridiculous when I say like blowing out the candles. She's like, I'm not a baby. Speaker 3 (1:13:30) I love that though. It's helping them learn how to handle things but also helping them be aware of things at the same time and just like more mindful about what their body is experiencing. Speaker 1 (1:13:39) Yeah, and I see like, you know, our kids that when they go to school, or when they're in these kind of environments with other kids, you see all of these behaviors that these other kids are doing, which are really reflection of their emotional state, you know, and and how their nervous system is feeling. And I think for some of the kids that I see, it's like a lot of repressed emotions, or, or trying to feel like enough. And so they project even like five years old, projecting things onto other kids. And so I think, the you can't control other kids. But I think the more you create that freedom and that clarity within their own nervous system, you know, it's, it's the best. Yeah. Speaker 3 (1:14:23) I do too. We've talked about some ways to incorporate sound into our lives and that would, a lot of that would be for children too. But what about for, you mentioned school, like teachers, what are some good ways to incorporate that in the classroom? Like instead of like, I don't even know if they do timeouts or something in school, but just a way to replace some of those things with sound instead of other things that they're doing. Speaker 1 (1:14:47) Yeah. Well, obviously a lot of the educational systems and approaches are usually backwards in terms of like correcting behavior. ⁓ And so of course, it's like the moment they're acting out, you isolate them when they actually need connection, you know. ⁓ And so, I mean, yeah, I would have that all the time. They're like, because I was a troublemaker myself, you know, and so so they would always put me in time out when what I was really needing was like attention, you know, but in a particular way. You know, what we talked about was bringing out a bowl or tuning forks and just, cause with kids, it's a much more about like the sensory stimulation than it is that you're ever going to get kids to sit quiet and close their eyes for 10 minutes. But they can feel the vibration. And so you make it more of like sensory play, you know? And a lot of the best ways to increase neuroplasticity is through play. And so I think when you play things, them how it feels, was that fun, was that too much? And let's do that. And this time we're all going to do an ⁓ sound. So I'm gonna play, everybody take big breath. And so you're like always reflecting back to them. How is this experience as opposed to like we're now gonna sit in a 20 minute sound bath and everybody's gonna close their eyes, know, so I think with kids it's much more about that engagement and turning it into like a fun activity to do and I think with teachers ⁓ You know, I mean one of the probably most difficult jobs there is I think it's for them to also regulate, you know, because there's a lot of energy that they're taking in. And so I think, you know, for the teachers being able to turn to like a humming practice or they have a tuning fork or they're learning the just these different ways of releasing physiologically what's going on can also be really nice. Speaker 3 (1:16:56) Yeah, totally. It's good for everybody. It's just like any, I just was reading something too earlier. It was, think this is today or yesterday where it might've been in our EMDR podcast we were talking about. She's like, you have to make sure that your therapist has a regulated nervous system so they can help heal you because if they don't have a regulated nervous system, then how can they help you regulate yours? So it's kind of the same thing for a teacher. Speaker 1 (1:17:00) Yeah. Yeah, and for me, like I see with a lot of people interested in facilitating this sort of work, they've usually gone through a really difficult journey in their life that led them to this. And so it's it's usually a lot more embodied ⁓ than sometimes, you know, when you're in a clinical setting, they may understand things clinically, but they don't always ⁓ embody or understand it at that. ⁓ at the way in the way that you're needing, you know, and yeah, so, you know, like, I say it in trainings, but it's like, you can only meet others where you've met yourself. So if I know it within myself, I know it within another, you know, so if I've been through this thing, I can notice it and empathize with it with another. Absolutely. Otherwise, there's judgment and there's, you know, other things. Speaker 3 (1:18:21) Totally agreed. there specific types of instruments or sounds that resonate better specifically for children or does it really matter? It's just kind of the same as an adult. Speaker 1 (1:18:34) Yeah, so there's certain instruments that create different effects and have different responses. So there's, let's say, bowls. Bowls are multi-frequency instruments. So there's usually a lot happening sonically. ⁓ And I know for kids, just because I've worked a bunch with kids dealing with autism, so there's usually like a sensory processing disorder there. So that can be really sometimes overstimulating ⁓ for certain kids. And so I find low ground, low tones, grounding instruments like drums can be really nice because like the lower the frequency, ⁓ the more grounding it is, usually the slower the wave is. So it's like less sonic information. And so it's just like much easier for the nervous system, especially early. nervous systems to take in. I feel like drums are really nice, because they can also kind of strike them without you worrying about them breaking. So I find drums are really nice. I'll play bowls, I have like all these bowls around me and I'll sometimes bring bowls and put them on their hands, and I'll vibrate it. And then I'll ask them how it feels. And they're like, I feel it like traveling through my body, you know, or I mean, depends on the setting. But like sometimes you can place it on the chest and ask them how that feels or just bring it to their ears. So those are nice and depending on the age, tuning forks can also be really helpful. ⁓ But yeah, it just depends on if there's underlying issues like going on or like any neurodevelopmental issues. Usually if there's anything going on there, I try to refrain from the face and from the head And try to work with lower areas of the body ⁓ but you know without that and and you know most of it is just Like the most important thing when you're working with sound as a facilitator is you're a tuning to what's going on in the moment So you're just kind of like sensing what feels right what feels safe. And so usually like lower tones, more grounding instruments tend to tend to help. sometimes like a woman in the UK who'd gone through the training, she was working with a mother and her artistic son who was nonverbal. And the son wasn't able to hum, but she was humming with the mother. And then the son in the car ride after was going So you don't always know how they're taking it in and how they're receiving it. so times when I've done things like drums and I bring them and kids are whacking them, it seems like, OK, this is a little out of control. But then afterwards, the teacher was saying, one of the boys was saying that was the most fun. And so you don't always know. And so it depends. I would say drums are really nice, bowls on the hand or on the chest can be really nice. The sternum is a great place because just interacting with the vagus nerve in these areas and things like that. Speaker 3 (1:22:05) Yeah. Yeah. We, ⁓ I don't know. I might've even seen this from you. I'm not really even sure cause it's been a while, but we have the panda drum for our kids. They love it. They love it. They actually were just asking me this morning. They were like, can we play the panda drum today? ⁓ so that's really fun too. And the playing the little songs. Speaker 1 (1:22:14) Okay, yeah. I know how did I forget the panda drum? The panda drum is great, you know, I think because it's it can create melodies, you know, and and it's very soft and it's very nice and it's like a drum that they can play and and move around on and yeah, I love the panda drum. Our kid loves the panda drum. We have a panda drum also where our mom is just so like kids can play it there as well. It's it's a great instrument for sure. Speaker 3 (1:22:52) It really is. I love it for myself. I'm like, yeah, let's play it. Speaker 1 (1:22:56) I love it too. Panda drums, you really get into a flow state when you're playing with it. You're just kind of like, get a little lost in it. It's really nice. Speaker 3 (1:23:05) Yeah. And I, so I meant to ask you this earlier and forgot, but I am like dying to hear what you say about this. So I know like anything is better than not, but if you want to listen to some frequency music, does the frequency get lost if you're listening to it through YouTube or Spotify? Is that authentic? Speaker 1 (1:23:27) Okay, this is a really great question, especially as we're trying to build out our own YouTube page. I've been, that is something I've been concerned about. And so for instance, we have something up right now on our YouTube. I mean, we have like barely anything, but I'm like really trying to in the coming year, ⁓ build that out and create like more long playing frequencies. Yeah. alongside some bowls. And so I do think ⁓ it can happen where as it gets compressed, it's almost like the sound gets pushed down a little bit, you sometimes lose some of the ranges that you hear initially just because of how it is able to live on on that page. And I will say, there's a woman she had told me there's like a site that actually goes through all of the pages on YouTube that say that they have frequencies. And it's set and it tells you whether it's real or not. ⁓ She tests it out. I forget the name. She had said it over a voice note to me and I was like, I need to look at that page. ⁓ So so there's that way. Honestly, another way is you can grab a tuner. And the tuner will show you ⁓ the frequencies that are being played and so I'll just play the frequency that is just for the stuff we're working on and I'll make sure that it's still coming through over the YouTube page. So it can still be there, but it can also be lost ⁓ depending on how it's mixed and how it gets compressed. So, you know, ⁓ There is that and also the trouble is some of the pages that have the frequencies that have like millions of views. You know, they have the frequency embedded in it, but it's also just a lot of synthesizer on top of it. So it's like a bit hard to hear sometimes where the because they're saying a specific frequency and to get that it will sound like. You know, and so it can be a bit hard to to notice. ⁓ at least when I've tested it out. So, you know, ⁓ it's one of those things where I've seen it to be true that it is the frequency and then I've seen it where it's like not at all. So I mean, it just depends, I guess, on on the page and how they put it out. ⁓ I mean, I would also say it's like not even just the frequencies, but something I've seen a lot, especially on Instagram. Speaker 3 (1:26:09) Yeah. Speaker 1 (1:26:17) is people will post these things and say, ⁓ studies have shown that talking to your body creates dot dot dot. And this is actually like one thing I was like time out with my wife who works on, you know, our sound or X stuff with with me. And we looked into it, and there was no actual study that was cited. It was essentially made up. And and and and given off as as a study like it just said a studies have shown ⁓ another like common thing that I've seen some really big pages put out there is like the frequency of fabrics, which is totally been debunked. And so you just, we always cite the studies in the posts. And when we refer to them, and that's not to say that something isn't true, because it doesn't have a study associated with it, you know, there's that idea of ⁓ just because there's ⁓ evidence of absence doesn't mean that there's absence of evidence. know, it's like, just because there isn't a study doesn't mean something isn't true per se. But I just think to be an integrity and to like have a good name. Yeah, if you're putting out frequencies and it's not there or you're saying something, you know, ⁓ literally this morning I was looking at something and it was It was a guy's page you actually really like and he was talking about a study done on the benefits of 528 Hertz. ⁓ Actually, I think related to cortisol levels from a study in Japan. And then he said, but you can also just hum to achieve 432 Hertz, which is totally, you know, gibberish. It's you can't produce 432 Hertz unless you're like listening to 432 Hertz and then somehow matching it with your voice. So I think people just, put things out there and the same thing goes with frequencies. So I think I really only look to like three or four people and pages and sometimes that I actually know them where I really trust what's being shared. Speaker 3 (1:28:26) Yeah, but that's interesting that you say that about the frequency of fabrics. I was going to ask you about that, but then I thought there's such little evidence. But this study, I think her name is Helen that did the study, forgot her last name. Do you know what I'm talking about, right? That study about the linen and the wool and the polyester. Is that what's not true? Speaker 1 (1:28:47) true? It's not true. Yeah, we We did an interview on it. Or sorry, an article on it. And and it just it was a faulty study. And the way it was put together was not accurate. And when you when you look into it, it doesn't line up. It doesn't even make sense. And so I mean, it looks good on an Instagram page. When you say, Yeah, these frequencies have these fabric. Sorry, these fabrics have these frequencies. but it isn't true. think there's obviously, again, it's one of those things, it's like, are there good fabrics? Yes. You know what I mean? Like there are certain things that are good to wear, but it's not related to a frequency, you know? Speaker 3 (1:29:30) Like more of a microplastic kind of thing with poly... Speaker 1 (1:29:32) Exactly, exactly. Like, yeah, you don't want to wear aloe. You know, like there are certain things that will leach microplastics into your body, but that doesn't mean it's, you know, at 10,000 Hertz. So it's good. You know what I mean? It's unrelated. Speaker 3 (1:29:47) Gotcha. Well, that's good to know because I wasn't really sure about that. Okay. Speaker 1 (1:29:51) What were you gonna say, Carl? I felt like you were gonna say something. Speaker 3 (1:29:54) sorry, Carl. Speaker 2 (1:29:55) was just thinking, I really love the Frequencies of series, I guess you would call it that you do on Instagram. ⁓ I've always like, okay, I wanna try that because I do have this emotion or I feel this or that. And I get nervous to go and try to look something up and find ⁓ music or sounds in the right frequency because I don't trust it. So I'm excited for when your YouTube does come out and I'd love to hear about some of those other resources you have, maybe a couple of your colleagues or friends that you trust. and be able to kind of reference them to get the right frequency and make sure that I'm putting the right noise around us. Speaker 3 (1:30:32) You you should do? So you know how like, you you can buy like Joe Dispense and Meditations and things like that and just download it. You should do frequencies that you can just like purchase and download. Speaker 1 (1:30:44) Okay, so this is yeah, no, I like that. This is ⁓ because we were kind of on TikTok, but we're not on TikTok. And everybody's always like, got to put your stuff on TikTok shop. And so I was thinking, I know, I really like what you're saying. I think that's that is something that makes sense. Because even we put up this 40 hertz sound bath. And again, it does run into ads. And so because people have been like, is there a way of getting it uninterrupted? So I think we will allow them to live on our site where you can just kind of download them. And then if you want, I just want them to be on YouTube. Because I've always felt like there is a page that I like, but outside of that, I really want there to be like pure tone frequencies. But I also like where there's bowls. Because sometimes it's very hard to listen to just a pure tone for a long period of time. And I just. Speaker 3 (1:31:41) like Speaker 1 (1:31:42) Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so I found for me at least and taking them in when you add some bowls some just texture like I personally like as I've been creating them, I really like drop into it. So I'm trying to ⁓ not trying going to create things where it's like around proven frequencies related to the lymphatic system or cortisol or brain plaque. or these different things and have them there, ⁓ but blended so it's much easier and more welcoming to the ear. Speaker 3 (1:32:21) Right. I think that's a great idea. I would totally get it. So let me know if you do that. Speaker 1 (1:32:26) Hey, listen, I appreciate the tip. I like it. Speaker 3 (1:32:31) Which also, is the, I don't really fully understand this, but do you know like what a rife machine is? I don't even know if I'm saying that right. Speaker 1 (1:32:41) Yeah, Yeah, so the, so the rife machine, so Royal rife, this was about 100 years ago, was a really famous doctor who actually in court, I believe the Supreme Court even it went to that level had proven using the machine and the frequencies to be able to cure certain types of cancer. And I think he had his labs in New Jersey. I mean, he's like one of the most notable doctors at the time. And then as stuff came out, his colleagues kind of left or they moved to different countries. And and then his labs mysteriously burned down and and and then he became an alcoholic. I mean, there's just it's a sad story. And so there is believed to have still been evidence of a lot of the frequencies that he uses and I have and and some of the machines Will sometimes you need to hold on to things or sometimes you wear gloves I mean, there's different ways of generating and getting the frequencies into you because it's not just through the ears the machines are You can change the frequency depending on what you're needing and I have seen You can go on certain Facebook groups in particular if you want to like read some just ⁓ really interesting stories with cancer, Lyme disease, a lot of different autoimmune issues where people use the Rife machine and heal themselves of these different illnesses, these different diseases. So the Rife machine is one of those things though where it's it's where you're getting the machine from and the cost of it. Because sometimes the right machine can cost $10,000. And then you see some that are much cheaper. There's a guy in India who's actually going to send me one of his to test out. I mean, I've used them. I mean, thank God I don't have any issue that I'm needing them for. I've heard amazing things around them. And I just haven't used enough of them for me to say, which is a reliable machine. But I mean, that's the idea of them. Speaker 3 (1:35:16) Okay. I was curious because I see it a lot in, I'm in like an energy frequency group and I see people talking about it a lot. So was just curious what your thoughts were on that. Speaker 1 (1:35:26) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean Royal Rife should be as known as Alexander Graham Bell. I mean these are people that could have Probably changed the world. I mean Tesla too. I mean these are these are these are monumental once-in-a-generation figures that got defamed and Left the world destitute, you know, which you know is a shame Speaker 3 (1:35:52) Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:35:52) Definitely ashamed. Speaker 3 (1:35:54) Okay. I really want to do your program of your sound training program or your sound healing training program. I think that it's super cool. And ⁓ what made you decide to expand into training after doing sound bass? Speaker 1 (1:36:12) you know, I'd been doing ⁓ sound baths ⁓ for probably like five years at the time. And, and then, you know, working with people one on one, we had created a course ⁓ more around like the nervous system and relationships, things like that. And for me, I felt I mean, similar to our page, I feel like a lot of what is out there, it's using sound. ⁓ but not rooted and grounded in the science of it and not always grounded in anything other than the energetics of sound and your intuitive approach. And that's something I've just, as we've done this, been trying to like move sound more and more out of almost like an unserious kind of like ⁓ pink and sepia tone like lions and unicorn and crystals everywhere. I find that's important for some people. But I really it's such a powerful tool that I've always wanted it to be seen as something very serious and very grounded in how it's affecting the nervous system, how it's affecting the brain. And of course, this is affecting the energy of somebody. But I really wanted it to be rooted in those things. And so honestly, it started because people were just asking me and I trained extensively in different areas, you know, with instruments, with frequencies, ⁓ somatic work, and then also having a background in music. And so like really understanding that as well, like which isn't always the case. And so taking all of that and then putting it together, in a way so you know, the training is called heal yourself heal others. So not everybody who does the training is wanting to become a facilitator necessarily of sound, although that is an element of it to to help people become facilitators or conscious practitioners of sound. But I as I started offering it, I was like, I really want this to be grounded in studies and an approach that actually was like made sense on paper and not just something because I felt it or intuitively, I like downloaded all of these ideas and came to me. And so everything that we go through is rooted either in theory, or the science of what we're talking about. And so, you know, it is really to help people become conscious practitioners of sound. So using sound in a really conscious way. because it is so powerful, especially when you're facilitating. Wow. If you're not knowing what you're doing, I find that to be Yeah, it can be really damaging, you know, because not if you don't know what you're doing, you know, this on the teacher of mine would say when you don't know you bring people into a space of not knowing. And people are in very vulnerable states, they're lying down. their energy field is open, their nervous system is receptive. And then suddenly, like just to give you an example of something that can happen is at millisecond speeds, the ear, the auditory cortex decides whether a sound is connecting or threatening, you know, so just as an example, somebody slams a door in the room, you don't think about it, but right away you kind of like jump out of your seat because you're body or ears interpreted that sound as threatening. So you go into the survival response. So if you're playing quote unquote healing instruments, but you're playing them in a way that it's too much sound, too many waves at once, you induce a threat response to their nervous system. Although the intention is to create this, you know, enjoying relaxing environment where all of the good things can happen, or you're playing things in a way that creates tension or creates these responses. And so I think as crystal bowls in particular, ⁓ became more and more popular, I think you just see a lot of people picking them up and playing them, and not understanding what it is, and, and the depths of it, and what it can do in the best ways and also in damaging ways. And so to me, the importance of training and really being conscious of what am I doing? Why am I doing it? When am I doing it? And how am I doing it are vital, you know? And so without that, you're just, creating something that could be beneficial or it could be harmful. And then you leave somebody with a feeling or an impression of, don't like sound. Alright, like, you know, I don't like sound baths or I don't like sound healing. I don't like sound therapy. And so I think it's really important. And so I mean, we've now, you know, trained. ⁓ mean, people from all over. mean, from from Dubai to Japan to Qatar to New York to Italy, like, you know, we've we've we've done a lot of ⁓ trainings with people. I mean, We did we used to do trainings for just people in Australia because the time difference and it's like the most beautiful experiences to see like my favorite thing outside of like my family and you know, my life is getting pictures and messages from people like doing sound healing with people and and and telling me like what just happened and I literally like a woman was just messaging me who's in Rishikesh in India. and telling me her experience with doing sound healing for this group of people and how she was using the tuning forks and asking me for this or that. And so, you know, I really try to be a reliable resource and like grounded in what I'm teaching and putting out there. And so it felt right. And I really feel it is like ⁓ my calling in a way to do this. And so so we've been training now since 2019. people so that you know they can bring sound into their community whether it's through a sound bath, whether it's working with themselves and their family or it's working one on one you know sometimes people are therapists or they're just they they they as a teacher like I was mentioning earlier so there's so many ways because sound goes with everything you know you could pair sound with anything and it'll run so I mean, I've seen it used in a lot of different ways. There's a musician who now she like before she does her concert, she does like a mini sound healing with everybody at the concert and then goes into her songs. So, so many ways of using it. But I think the most beautiful thing is it's really like, it's about healing ourselves, which isn't just like this catchall term, but it's just like bringing wholeness into our life, you know, where there's been these fragmented parts unresolved or unprocessed. so, and then we create a space where others can heal themselves, you know, because we don't do anything ⁓ in terms of I'm not healing anybody, you just, create a space that allows for the healing of somebody to occur. And so, I mean, you know, to me, that is, that is the one of the deepest things I've been able to do. And so that's I don't know if I answered your question, but that is the idea of the training. Speaker 3 (1:44:06) You totally did. And it's just very meaningful work that you're doing and, you know, helping other people do too. So I think it's really awesome. Speaker 1 (1:44:16) Yeah, you know, when I first got like part of my journey, like I was saying, is I really struggled with addiction for for for years. And so much of addiction, it's such a self involved aspect of what life can be. Because it's all about you. And like, what can I get? And how can I get it? And I think just for me personally, a lot of the healing internally was self love and learning to love myself, maybe being able to look at myself and feel good goodness. But also, like I learned from Alcoholics Anonymous is to be of service to others is the greatest way to get out of your own head, you know, so for me, and maybe you feel that even doing this podcast is like sometimes just being in space with others in a kind of deep and genuine way. It It really just brings so much ⁓ healing and goodness and value, I think, to life, you know, and to... Yeah, to life. Speaker 3 (1:45:23) I 100 % agree. It's like raising, you know, we're all one, we're all connected, just raising the collective together. Speaker 1 (1:45:32) Yeah, I went to this workshop last night with Mariel Hemingway. She was Ernest Hemingway's granddaughter. Anyhow, so she great, great workshop. And she was teaching at a place I used to ⁓ teach at in Malibu. And it was also like really sad because I haven't driven through there, you know, there's like fires ⁓ there less. years, I don't know, six months ago. It was really tragic to see because that was like one of the most beautiful coastlines ever. And so it was to see so many houses and so much burn to the ground. Anyhow, during the workshop, she she said that, you know, I've only done this for women in the past. And she's like, you're actually the first man. But then she said after she was like, but I realize it's actually it's just human, you know, it's just like If it's true for a woman, I mean, obviously there's particulars, like, yeah, it's a human experience, you know, like, trauma doesn't just happen to men, it doesn't just happen to women and stress doesn't just happen to, you know, and pain isn't, I don't know, I'm getting a bit off topic, but just to say, yes, ⁓ it is a human experience. Yeah. Speaker 3 (1:46:49) Yeah, totally. But you're absolutely right. It doesn't matter. It's just, it is. that was one thing too that I wanted to ask you. So ⁓ when we were talking about the Panda Drum, I was on your website at the Sonder X shop, which you just opened recently, right? Probably in the last six months or so. Speaker 2 (1:47:07) All right. Speaker 1 (1:47:08) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (1:47:09) So the world's tiniest sound ball. I was like, this would be awesome to go with the kids with the panda drum. Speaker 1 (1:47:17) Yeah, no, the kids love it. know, kids do love it because first off, I don't care what happens to it. So it's like they're able to play it and they're able to move with it. And I think it's just so nice for them to... My daughter's like, it's so cute. Yeah, so yeah, we offer that and we offer, you know, much bigger bowls as well. Speaker 2 (1:47:45) Good stocks and stuff are a present for the kids as we get towards the holiday season here. Speaker 3 (1:47:49) That's what I thought, I I'm gonna grub one. Speaker 1 (1:47:51) Yeah, I know it is. ⁓ You know, we tried to offer a yeah, like it was just recently open first off, like we're really, I was really careful with where we sourced the instruments from. Because, I mean, that's a separate topic, but really important ⁓ to ethically source your instruments. One of the things that happens with him a land bulls in particular is there's a lot of child labor. that gets involved with making those because they're made usually in impoverished areas. And so you're like literally kids making them and then ⁓ using them for quote unquote healing work. And so we were really ⁓ careful with where, I mean, they're straight from Nepal and where they're being sourced from, the metals that are being used are just like high grade, high quality. Anybody who's touched the bowls are always like, wow, these are incredible. And so, yeah, we source bowls directly and we sell them and send them out our home. Our home looks like a warehouse in certain parts. And so... And so so we sell single bowls that are amazing. ⁓ Some of the bowls in particular, we use like an evil for the for the gut, which is really incredible. I mean, to me, using the bowl directly on the gut is better than any probiotic or any like kaffir like whatever you're using for your gut. There's something when you apply vibration directly to the gut, because Sound can travel in the air and it gets absorbed, of course, by the body, but when it goes directly on tissue and then travels, it gets absorbed 13 times quicker. So I love placing bowls directly on the body. So we sell bowls for the different areas of the body. And then we also sell like ⁓ tinctures, which are amazing, which are really great high frequency sound. for bringing attention, for clearing. It's been used for thousands of years for cleansing spaces, ⁓ you know, in ritual and in houses. So the same way you use like Sage or Kopal, can use ⁓ the tincture. And so, yeah, so we have a lot of instruments there as well as like an affiliate through Panda Drum. And yeah, going to be carrying some more instruments there. And yeah, go ahead. Speaker 3 (1:50:37) Is the tingsha, is that what the Buddhist monks used to use during meditation or do use during meditation? Speaker 1 (1:50:44) Yeah, it was used in Buddhism and then also even before Buddhism, lesser known as the Bon tradition, ⁓ where they would also use tingshas. And like I saying, they would be used to kind of, ⁓ used in fire rituals to kind of, actually just like bells would be used. Like the bells would take whatever the prayer was and bring it up to the heavens. they would use the tinsha in the same way during fire ceremonies. And so they're really incredible ⁓ for cleansing and then also for bringing in a ritual, like calling attention and then bringing people back into their body at the end of sessions. Speaker 3 (1:51:28) That's really cool. thought that was so cool and they're cute too. Speaker 1 (1:51:32) Yeah, super cute. and, and yeah, and you know, yeah, like we had created a code, I mentioned a crunchy pod. If you put that code in, you can get 10 % off. Yeah. So we created that as well. Speaker 3 (1:51:47) That's awesome, thank you. So cool. So I wanted to play a little game and it's just a rapid fire. Which frequency would you choose if you wanted to? And so I was just gonna name a few things and then if you wouldn't mind just saying what the frequency would be. Speaker 1 (1:51:49) for your listeners. Yeah, of course. Okay. Speaker 3 (1:52:08) Okay. Which frequency would you use to calm your nervous system fast? Speaker 1 (1:52:17) To call my nervous system fast I would probably use four to eight Hertz And if I'm looking to Yeah, I would say so like four to seven four to eight Hertz is is going to put you into that like deeply relaxing restorative state 8 to 12 Hertz is going to put you in alpha, which is also going to kind of ⁓ move you out of that sympathetic that that fight or flight. So rapid fire, I would say four to seven Hertz and also like eight to 12 in that range. And also like just as a warning, like this is, you know, ⁓ So long as there's like no underlying issues, you know and things like that as well, right? Yeah ⁓ Speaker 3 (1:53:16) Okay. How about to boost creativity? Speaker 1 (1:53:20) boost creativity? Speaker 3 (1:53:24) or focus. Speaker 2 (1:53:24) Heavy metal. ⁓ Speaker 1 (1:53:26) Heavy metal. Yeah, so some Pantera. some no. Hmm. Yeah, it's funny because a part of me wants to repeat what I just said, because it does kind of put you into that nonlinear dreamlike state. Another would probably be 40 hertz, which also improves cognitive function. Okay, so I'll go with 40 Hertz for that. I feel like I'm on a game show. Speaker 3 (1:54:00) no. I know I should have given you a heads up on this. I thought about that today. Speaker 1 (1:54:06) It is good. You're you're testing me. is ⁓ so so for the first I would say four to twelve hertz You know, I would say for the first one eight to twelve hertz just as like a safe place because you don't probably want to be dropped that deeply and then for creativity and improving cognitive function I would do 40 Hertz Yeah, which has also been shown to like remove brain plaque and some really cool studies ⁓ I mean done on mice, but out of MIT, yeah. Speaker 3 (1:54:39) Good deal. How about for sleep? Speaker 1 (1:54:43) Okay. So there's, there's two there. Okay. So for sleep, it depends because there's the dream state that you go into right before, you know, that feeling like right before you're about to sleep and you're kind of like dozing off and you're a little here, a little there. so there's that. which would again, I would be putting in the theta state. But if you're wanting to kind of go into delta, you could go like even lower and listen to it as binarial beats, but that's going to induce more of like the dreamless sleep state where it's like, really your circadian rhythm is getting reset. But in general, if you're just kind of like wanting to slow down, you know, I was mentioning like sounds to play at night. 40 to 60 hertz is going to really kind of like get the body rest like into that rest state. So because I already said 40 hertz, I would say 60 hertz here. And then if you're just wanting to play things while you're sleeping, like we have this device, I honestly love it. you know, which we also have an affiliate through by I really genuinely love it, which is the human resonance. And that plays the I mean, can get it so you can play different frequencies, but the version one just plays 7.83 hertz, which is the human resonance. And that'll go for like, I think it's 10 feet to where it's the surrounding area. also, what's amazing about about it is, is that it it also removes a lot of the EMF in the surrounding area as well. So EMF is one of those things that will interfere with your sleep a lot. so removing EMFs as much as you can will also be helpful. ⁓ So I like just I try to sleep in rooms where there's no electricity and not no electricity, but but you know, no Wi Fi or things like that. going on. know that's a bit hard sometimes. I mean, I know some people where they turn off the routers, but I don't. ⁓ But I would say the Schumann resonance, so 7.83 Hertz and remove your EMFs and put on some blue light blockers before you're going to sleep as well to, you know, not trick your body into thinking it should be up. Speaker 3 (1:57:31) Great. Keep your circadian rhythm in check. Speaker 1 (1:57:33) Yeah, I got those glasses from raw. I forgot what's called raw, raw light. I forget. But just orange, you know? Yeah, yeah. nice. Like I really find like our two before I'm going to sleep. It really helps. Speaker 3 (1:57:50) do too. I wear blue light glasses as well at nighttime and I'm to the point where like at night I actually have to have them now because it feels like way too bright or something. I'm like, need them. Speaker 2 (1:58:02) Yeah, you won't even sit down without him now. Speaker 3 (1:58:05) Yeah. Speaker 1 (1:58:06) I know sometimes I do these where I'm wearing them, I also feel like I don't want to like be that person because sometimes when I'm like looking at videos, I'm like, yeah. Speaker 2 (1:58:15) Be whoever you want to be, right? Speaker 1 (1:58:17) No, that's true. That's true. Either way, when I'm looking at a computer screen, I don't and I try to also remove overhead lighting at night as well. Yeah, which is also really, really disruptive. Speaker 3 (1:58:32) I so too. It's the incandescent lights are the way to go. think I like these. ⁓ I have these, I got them off Amazon. They're like these, ⁓ the salt lamp, Hemaline salt lamp. I always say that wrong light bulbs, but they work pretty good too. Speaker 1 (1:58:48) Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, there's this thing my wife gets they're like these Japanese lights that are like ⁓ It's overhead, but it's very warm. It's like an orange light. So it's also really nice if you don't have But yeah those beeswax candles Speaker 3 (1:59:07) yeah. So what, does your morning routine look like? Speaker 1 (1:59:12) Okay, so you know, it's funny because obviously we have kids so you know how disruptive that can be to any semblance of a routine or normalcy. mean, like, honestly, like just getting the kids ready this morning, like, by the end, I feel like I was just like put through like a mind, like a minefield. It's like, because our son was sick and he's crying, you know, so all of that. But yeah, I will say I actually try to wake up like a couple hours early, because my morning routine is like so important to me. Also, it's, you know, I'm soon to be sober nine years in January. ⁓ congrats. And so thank you. And so my sobriety journey has been like, my routine has been the most important aspect of sobriety. It keeps me like, locked in, essentially, like when I'm doing the right things throughout the day, it keeps me in like a really good place. And morning, especially, because by nighttime, I kind of like usually fall off, especially like with the kids. And it's just like, I just want to go to sleep. But the morning is like, so important to me, so important. So I haven't shared yet. But something that occurred last year is I found out I have an inflamed vestibular system. So your inner ear, There's the vestibular system and really is about the vestibular system helps with balance helps with movement so my vestibular system became inflamed they actually think it was I went to this amazing place out here the dizzy Institute and and they kind of diagnosed it because nobody else was able to and anyhow they believe that it got inflamed during COVID. And then anytime I'm really stressed or dealing with a sickness, it gets even more inflamed. And what it does, it creates something called vestibulopathy, where my sense of balance ⁓ is off and is changed. And when you're vestibular, when you have vestibular issues, and when you have balance issues, it puts your nervous system into the sympathetic state as well. ⁓ So it's like an inner imbalance. It's not like it's almost like a slight drunken feeling, you know, like where it's just a slight, like slightly off. And it's been going on for like a year for me. It's been ⁓ kind of challenging. And so I say that because the first thing I do in the morning is I actually do these practices. to for my vestibular system. So that's like a non negotiable, but I need like 30 minutes to do them. So I know this isn't like the most attractive answer. ⁓ But but I do these practices because it naturally needs to ⁓ be done like there's nothing that you can do in like terms like a surgery or anything. So I do these eye practices and I Speaker 2 (2:02:03) That's okay. Speaker 1 (2:02:21) do these movements ⁓ to help with like my balance throughout the day. And then I also in terms of frequency listen to 100 Hertz while I'm doing it. 100 Hertz is amazing to listen to. If you experience dizziness or like a sense of imbalance, it's also really great for when you're on a plane or when you're traveling. 100 Hertz really helps with some of the nausea ⁓ that can occur with that as well. So also, yeah, so I'll have that going as well. So I do those exercises. And then I also I did a lymphatic training ⁓ earlier this year. And now I'm really into the lymphatic system. And so I do like lymphatic practices as well. And, and, ⁓ and then I go, ideally, it's like 6am at this point, and I go do yoga for an hour. Speaker 3 (2:02:49) Good to know. Speaker 1 (2:03:18) ⁓ And then I come back and I get the kids ready and then go through ⁓ that. I always feel like I personally really need to get a lot of these things ⁓ going in the morning for myself. And then there's sometimes where I'll do, I'll listen to certain frequencies to ground myself, but that's what I've been doing lately. Speaker 3 (2:03:47) I love that. That's a solid routine and I'm obsessed with lymphatic drainage too. I always do something in the morning too to make sure it's all draining. So I love that. Speaker 1 (2:03:56) Yeah, and also what's nice is if you put a little like jojoba oil on the end of a tuning fork, it's also very nice to move like around certain areas as well to help because the lymphatic system ain't gonna drain itself. you know, it's nice where you're doing it manually, but I also like doing it with the tuning fork because you're also getting that added vibration, which is increasing nitric oxide as well, which as you get older, dissipates sometime, like I'm 40 now, they say your nitric oxide levels are half of what they were when you were 20. And you're and so your nitric oxide also isn't stimulated naturally. So you need to kind of do these things to increase it. And that's part of why the body gets very tight and kind of ⁓ stiff as you get older, you know, because there's less and less nitric oxide production. So ⁓ I love the tuning forks for that reason as well. Speaker 3 (2:04:56) That is a really, really good and unique tip. Speaker 2 (2:05:02) Never heard of that. Speaker 3 (2:05:03) I love that. I'm like, whoa, that's so – and I also am going to look more in a nitric oxide too because I know all the good things that it does for you, but I did not realize and I know humming is really good for that too, but I did not realize that you kind of lose it. Speaker 1 (2:05:18) Yeah, and a lot of it is produced in the nasal cavities. That's why they say nasal humming in particular. It's like the breathing in. So it's where a lot of it is happening as well. Speaker 2 (2:05:28) you Speaker 3 (2:05:33) wow. Love that. So I knew you were going to have a good morning routine because I know that you also are holistic. ⁓ Does it ever feel so weird that we know this about you and we just met you from your Instagram? Speaker 1 (2:05:49) that I have a morning routine. Yeah, I don't know. Speaker 3 (2:05:53) was like, I know you're holistic, I know you do this and that. Speaker 1 (2:05:56) Yeah, mean, ⁓ you know, it's funny, because it's like, ⁓ you know, it's something that is very important to us. And then of course, you engage with people where they're not concerned with it at all, or any of these things. And I think like, the journey is really being okay with that as well, you know, and it's like, Yeah, a lot of family friends, they don't care about any of this and they may as well live to like 120. So who knows, you know, but I do find especially the morning routine is is is vital for me for sure. Yeah. Speaker 3 (2:06:32) It sets up your day. So if you were stranded on a desert island and you can only bring one sound healing tool, what would it be? Speaker 1 (2:06:42) So interesting, because in this workshop I was mentioning last night, a lot of the practice was around being on an island with somebody and like, who were you with and who were you meeting. So it's just interesting day two of being on an island by myself. ⁓ I would probably bring a Himalayan bull. And because I could Speaker 2 (2:06:59) myself. Speaker 1 (2:07:10) laid on myself. When I started, I was very much more into the quartz bowls. But as I've gone through the journey, I find the metal bowls just take me to something much deeper. I find like quartz bowls are great for clearing, very clean, they really fill up the room. But when the Himalayan bowl goes on the body, I find it just like, like brings me to this very, very deep spot. So, yeah, if I can have the mallet and the Himalayan bowl there, I would probably ⁓ bring that or a weighted tuning fork. Yeah. Speaker 3 (2:07:53) And okay, last question is what is one song or sound that always brings you peace? Speaker 1 (2:08:03) I mean, the sound of my kids just saying daddy, I would say is like, you know, as crazy as as crazy as the day gets when they just say daddy, I'm like, like, yeah, okay, you know, Speaker 2 (2:08:25) That's the best one of the best sounds I've ever heard And if they ever stop for that random daddy, I love you. It's just there you go At peace all my cells have repaired everything everything's good in the world Speaker 1 (2:08:28) Exactly. ⁓ Speaker 3 (2:08:38) You Speaker 1 (2:08:40) You know, I know, and you know, I don't like when my kids are sick, but there is something when my son, cause he wasn't feeling well, and he's just like playing with my face. You know, he's like so like low energy and he's just like playing with my face and talking to me in his like sweet, sweet voice. So I mean, the sound of that is probably, nothing else, but songs, you know, I was mentioning punk music, but you know, Um, there's these two things I've been revisiting from my, when I was younger. One is a musician who I loved, Elliot Smith. And, um, I, I just, man, he just puts the way he puts a song together. And so I would probably say, well, I couldn't pick a song, maybe Clementine by Elliot Smith I love. And there's also. song that actually kind of turned me okay, two more songs and then and then I'll finish one song is Claire de Lune by WC, which is like, I could listen to forever. And also is kind of like one of the to me, godfathers of like ambient styled music, because he created things without any start stop, it was like very open ended, very ethereal. I love that. And then also there is an artist from when I was like 16, 17, after I was into punk music and some of the other things, it was an artist named William Basinski. And this was ⁓ right around 9 11. And he was in New York right near the Twin Towers. And he took these ⁓ he took these tapes of New Age music. And he put it on a real like where it played until the tape itself destructed. ⁓ And so it's called the disintegration loops. And I think it's like hours of just sound. And I think it was the first time I heard something that was very similar to what we do with sound, which is there is no beginning, there is no end and there is no structure to it. And that is kind of like the depth of what it's doing. There is no point to it in a way. It is just kind of like there and then it's being taken in. So listening to that recently, honestly, I was reminded like, wow, this probably actually where I first got turned on to like sound being used, but like no melody, no rhythm. There's like almost like no point or like structure to it. Yeah, so the artist's name, he's amazing ambient. Speaker 2 (2:11:27) What was the name of that one again? Speaker 1 (2:11:33) ⁓ composer William Basinski. He's made a lot of things over the years, but to me his like magnum opus is the disintegration loops. And there's a number of them, but I think it's like, because he has like weird names. It's literally like numbers. So I forget which one, but it's like disintegration loop two or one or like 1.1. I forget. It's like one or two that I really, but as soon as you turn it on it like naturally evokes a lot of images and memories. It just is haunting. Yeah, yeah, you'll feel yourself just start to get emotional and be like thinking about things. It just brings it out. So yeah. Speaker 2 (2:12:08) That's cool, we'll have to check that out. Speaker 3 (2:12:11) Definitely. I love that. I love moving music. So ⁓ where can everyone find you? Speaker 1 (2:12:24) Yeah. Yeah, so everybody can find us, you know, I really I need to mention my wife because she's like a huge part of ⁓ what I do as well. She's brilliant. And so you can find us at sound Rx on Instagram, and then just click that link in the bio to kind of see about, you know, our offerings and different things and our website there. Speaker 3 (2:12:55) That's awesome. And I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. I'm just so thrilled to have you on the podcast, Carl is too. Yeah, thank you. And we're just really excited. I think that you are doing very meaningful work and you provide tons of value. Speaker 1 (2:13:12) I appreciate that. thanks for having me on. always, always appreciate it. Yeah. Speaker 3 (2:13:19) Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:13:20) I agree and I'm very much appreciative of your time today. It's been really cool talking to you. Speaker 1 (2:13:24) likewise Speaker 3 (2:13:26) Thanks so much for listening. If you'd like to follow along with us, you can find us on Instagram at crunchy pod and at unapologetically crunchy. We have the same handles on TikTok too. And check out our websites at crunchypod.com. and on apologeticallycrunchy.com. And if you have some tips and tricks you'd like to share with us, feel free to DM us or contact us on the website. And one more thing, if you love our podcast, please consider sharing with every single person you know who would love it and leave us a review. and you can tell them to read the review too. We are so beyond grateful for your support. Thank you so much. Peace, and crunch. Speaker 2 (2:14:04) You
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Avi Sherbill is the founder of SoundRx, a sound healer and educator who helps people heal deep-rooted trauma and physical patterns through evidence-based frequency healing. Using deconstructed music and pure sound, such as singing bowls and gongs, he works with slow sound waves and vibration to support nervous system regulation, emotional stabilization and deep restorative states.
Drawn to sound and music from an early age, Avi’s work is rooted in both personal healing and rigorous study. After navigating his own transformative journey with frequency-based modalities, he now trains and mentors sound healers while making these powerful tools more accessible and practical for those seeking real, lasting change.
👀 you can find Avi:
+ on the web getsoundrx.com
+ on instagram @getsoundrx & @thesoundrxshop
+ on YouTube @soundrx
👀 you can find us:
🎥 watch → youtube
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🤩 follow along with us on our socials!
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💫connect with karl → instagram.com/uncommonstandpoint & uncommonstandpoint.substack.com
💜 peace, love + CRUNCH!